2002 - 2005 Super Air Nautique (Lake Tahoe, CA)

[jpwhit]

Because it's a lot easier IMO owning an older boat if you feel comfortable working on it yourself. I would also submit that if you can build a camper van like you posted, and you have a reasonable knowledge of 12v electrical systems, you probably won't have that much trouble doing a large percentage of boat maintenance and repairs.

I feel like you've set your criteria for a boat such that you're trying to buy an older boat in the hope that it'll need very little maintenance. I'm not really sure that's realistic for a boat that's 20 years old. For example, most boats that are 20 years old with less than 600 hours have likely sat unused for periods of time. In my experience, that can cause more issues than being used consistently. I think you should also have an expectation that you'll likely need to invest some time and money into a boat of that age.

I would look for a boat more based on its actual conditions than a set of hard and fast set of criteria such as hours and number of owners. And you should absolutely walk away from any boat where the owner isn't willing for a mechanic's inspection and a water test. And if you really aren't going to work on it yourself, then you really need to find a good independent boat mechanic. Dealer's generally won't work on boats more than 10 years old.

I'd strongly recommend that you buy a boat that's fuel injected. And if you're looking at Nautiques, it would be really beneficial to have a PCM EX330 engine as opposed to an older engine. The EX330 is the earliest PCM engine that's still pretty similar to much newer engines and there will be very little issues finding parts for that engine for quite a while. I can't remember exactly the first year of the EX330 was available, but it's within the date range you mentioned.

[KDenning]

jpwhit Thank you for the feedback!

This year range (2001 - 2005) are the only boats that I'm interested in for the simple reason that they're the boats that I was towed behind as a grom during competition and the last boat that my parents and I all enjoyed together as a family (ours was a 2005 ordered custom from Nautique). I was between 9 and 15 years old when I was seeing/riding behind these boats, lol.

I wouldn't say that I'm looking for a boat that requires very little maintenance but I am looking for a boat in that very specific age range and that means we're talking about as old as a twenty two year old boat. We've got a relatively short lake season here in Tahoe and between backpacking, climbing, and mountain biking I'd like to spend more time on the water than wrenching away in the garage. I'll say this - I am not looking for a project boat. I've had salt water project boats in Florida and Southern CA and I don't need to work on any more outboard motor fiberglass restoration for a while. All that being said, I'm not scared of learning everything I can about these engines and their maintenance - I'm excited for the opportunity.

I'd love to hear more about your take on the engine options for this date range.

I've read countless threads on "how many hours is too many for a _____ boat" threads and avoided posing that question in this thread but if anyone would like to weigh in or if there's information that you feel would be valuable regarding my personal search please don't hesitate to reach out here or via DM!

I'll soak up any and all information about this year range of boats like a sponge! I want to get this purchase right on the first try. If that means missing out on another few summers on the water that is no problem - we were able to snowboard every month of the year in 2023 so there's no shortage of things to do while I look for the right boat!

Thanks again,
Kirk

[KDenning]

Nice Van bling dude! That's a big market place right now.

Thank you! I was fortunate to be building vans prior to and during COVID when the getting was really good and now I'm fortunate to have a "real" job that lets me continue to pursue building vans on the side when the opportunity to build the right van for the right client comes along.

The used cargo van market is still recovering and the availability of new vans is slim if you aren't willing to pay $5,000 - $15,000 over MSRP or wait a number of months/years for a custom order.

[KDenning]

Thanks to this forum I was able to spot Faria gauges on the 2001 that we're planning to see in person next week.

The Faria gauges read 300 hours but based on NautiqueJeff 's 2015 thread Repair for Dead Gauges on 2000 - 2002, I've gathered that this only represents the hours since replacement (unless significant care was taken to make the new gauges reflect the actual engine hours) and that the engine hours aren't stored on the engine's ECU in 2001.

Is this enough reason to narrow my search to a 2003 - 2005 with the Ex330 (in addition to the reasons mentioned above by jpwhit )?

If I'm only looking at 2003 + I should be able to avoid the Teleflex/Faria issue and be looking at boats with engine hours stored in the ECU, correct?

Thanks in advance for any input!

[jpwhit]

Well, it's somewhat of a case of pick your poison. I'm pretty sure I have these dates correct, but I'm not 100% confident. I've only ever owned one boat in this year range, a 2007 Nautique 196, but sold it before it ever had any gauge or ECM related issues. All my boats now are 2012 and newer and have computer screens for control and gauges. Before that all my boats where from the 90s.

But I think before 2003 you're correct that the hours are stored in the gauges. But 2003 to 2009 have electronic gauges based on a computerized gateway made by Medallion. The Medallion gateways have reliability issues and are no longer available. They also have their own engine hour issues. They don't support reporting hours more than 999 from the engine computer. Also, engine ECMs do get replaced as well, and when that happens the hours get reset. The hours also get reset often when there is an engine swap with a new or different ECM. Granted ECM replacement is not as common as gauge replacements, but it's not completely rare either, in the end you're always somewhat at the mercy of the seller to disclose if the engine hours are actually accurate.

Most people with boats with Medallion gateways end up eventually doing a conversion to analog gauges There are kits mades but there have been some availability issues with the kits. I know at one point people were waiting more than a year to get a kit. Not sure what the current situation is with the conversion kits. You can call Nautique Parts and they will know. Also, some of the kits also store hours in the gauges, so when the conversion is done, the hours displayed get reset to zero.

https://nautiqueparts.com/kit-faria-...y-box-2003-09/

[KDenning]

jpwhit Thank you for that information. Pick your poison is right!

This is great information to have going forward. If I narrow my search to midway 2002 - 2005 boats with the Ex330 I can inquire about the Medallion gateway. Thank you for the Natique Parts link. It's nice to keep that price in the back of my head with this year range boat.

[jpwhit]

I think there’s a good chance that some of the boats for sale in the year range you’re looking will already be converted to analog gauges. IMO that would be a plus if they did a good job on the conversion. Also could be a price negotiation point if they haven’t been converted. Especially if some of the gauges aren’t working.

[KDenning]

jpwhit "Also could be a price negotiation point if they haven’t been converted. Especially if some of the gauges aren’t working."

The same seller of the 2005 that wouldn't help facilitate an on-water test already told me that some of the gauges weren't working before I broke contact with him. That's consistent with the information you've provided which led me to NautiqueJeff 's "Repair for Dead Gauges" thread from 2015. That led me down the rabbit hole of the 2023 update from TRD/SkiPartsOnline.

I'm thankful to be learning about all of this now. Like you said, this is a great negotiating point if I'm looking at a boat with malfunctioning gauges. Even budgeting an extra $1,300 if I find a boat with the original gateway box wouldn't be a bad idea.

[kylant]

did you see this one?

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa...680119684.html

[Scooter G]

An '04 with under 300 hours, original owner, that's worth an honorable mention.
Comes with a few accessories, needs new trailer tires. Looks like a good full disclosure write up on it.
Tough time of year to sell a boat, good time of year to buy a boat.
Bought my last 2 boats in January.

Does anyone actually use their table, just curious?

[MN Ryan]

Scooter G Where do you put your charcuterie board while surfing if you don't use the table?

[jpwhit]

did you see this one?

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa...680119684.html

Not familiar with the area, but a bit of googling suggests the SF Delta near Bethel Island is brackish water.

[KDenning]

That bot is/was on our radar.

The seller is firm @ $32,500 and reported that they’d be taking better pictures and anticipate selling boat for more money between February and June. I don’t blame them for waiting! The seller is kind and transparent and sent a load of pics/videos. The trailer is in worse shape than pictured but that wouldn’t keep us from buying the right boat.

To @jpwhit’s point I asked the seller for clarification and didn’t hear back. He was only agreeable to starting the boat with a fake-a-lake when we last talked.

[KDenning]

From the seller regarding salinity:

”We use in Delta near Bethel Island. You may want to look at the internet for “X2” line, where salinity is 2 parts per thousand, compared to seawater, 35 ppt. The X2 line is 75-80 km from the Golden Gate, and Bethel Island is 100-110 km from Golden Gate. ”

[KDenning]

The search continues! We're off to a dry start to winter compared to last year so snowboard/back country fever hasn't dampened our longing for a boat.

It's been informative to watch prices come down on boats that were originally listed for $40,000 during summer that are still on the market now listed for $28,000 - $35,000. I've had a few sellers come back to me and accept my offer that they said was "insulting" during summer.

It's also been disheartening to talk to several sellers that have boats with the GT40 and new Faria gauges that stop responding to messages when I ask about documentation for the actual hours on the boat. I'm now aware that even the hours recorded o

For that reason (and aesthetics) I'm narrowing my search to boats with the Excalibur 330 engine in the sub-600 hour range. I'll update my original post to reflect that new criteria.