Brand new 211TE but have to pay $250 for ZO update?

[SkiTundra]

I bought an '08 211TE a few weeks ago. It has release 100K on it. Needless to say, a buggy release. Just took it in for 20hr check and dealer said it would be $250 to install current release. I can understand that down the road, but shouldn't the most current release be included with the purchase of a new unit by either ZO or CC?

[crowland]

RE: Brand new 211TE but have to pay $250 for ZO update?

I think after the initial purchase all Zero Off software upgrades should be included.

I know I get an update message from Windows everyday on my computer and have yet to pay a dime for those after the initial purchase of the software.....

[SkiTundra]

RE: Brand new 211TE but have to pay $250 for ZO update?

Those are maintenance releases which, I agree, should be free. A major new release of Windows or MacOS with new features such as XP > Vista (new release, just not an upgrade) you will and should have to pay for. Typically though, if you purchase something that is software driven the latest version is included. EG, if I purchase a TomTom GPS I can download all of the latest code one time for free and then have to pay an annual subscription beyond that if I want future feature upgrades. Bug fixes are nearly always included free for several years.

For CC or ZO to tell me or my dealer that I have to pay to upgrade to what is current on the day I purchased my new boat is downright scuzzy on both of their parts. It's even scuzzier given that what has been done so far is bug fixing just to get ZO up to usability. This sours me not only on CC, but on AWSA as they are who have me stuck dealing with scuzzy people at ZO.

[FatBoy]

RE: Brand new 211TE but have to pay $250 for ZO update?

Has the ZO been fixed to work in a current? (river)?????

[SkiTundra]

RE: Brand new 211TE but have to pay $250 for ZO update?

Yes, 4 months ago in 100P. Of course they want me to pay $250 for that update even though I purchased my boat 3 months AFTER it was released. Can anyone guess that I'm PO'd and view CC and ZO as a bunch of scuzzballs? The thing is, it's not that much money. It's the principle that they're telling me that for my tens of thousands of dollars they're selling me something with software that's over a year old and virtually useless for slalom courses.

[SuperSquirt]

RE: Brand new 211TE but have to pay $250 for ZO update?

I totally agree with you guys that Zero Off has a shady business model. They deal a contract with the best boat manufacturer just to trap the end consumer into their little nickel and dime scheme. I personally think the updates should be free because my 08 version installed back in April has bugs in it, and they want $200 for a simple patch cable just to get updates? I work in retail everyday and this is simply pathetic, if they need money for their children's college fund, why not just ask for it??

[ClemsonDave]

RE: Brand new 211TE but have to pay $250 for ZO update?

1. The cable is NOT a simple patch cable. It is a complicated cable. Plus, it includes software, the upgrades and technical support.

2. The OP said his DEALER is charging $250 for the ZO upgrade. How is does that translate into ZO having a shady business model?? Maybe your anger should be directed to the dealer, not ZO or CC.

SkiTundra....
Call ZO and see if you can send in your display to be updated. Or, ask them if they know anyone in your area with a cable. I have one and would be perfectly willing to help anyone in Va. If you have any difficulty getting in touch with them, PM me.

The only thing P101 did over P100 is fix a small issue where the boat gets a hot 1 ball if you have an extremely short setup. The pull between both is identical.

[SkiTundra]

RE: Brand new 211TE but have to pay $250 for ZO update?

The dealer is charging $250 because he is being charged $250 by ZO/CC. It's scuzzy business because every other software driven product that I am aware of includes the latest software available at time of purchase. None others that I am aware of tell you tough %%%% if the product you purchase happens to have older software on it than the one next to it. The software I have btw is the original version from over a year ago. The changes made since are very significant.

My understanding of ZO's licensing is that the $250 (or $198?) is per unit and it tied to the ID of the device.

[SuperSquirt]

I must have missed the memo where ClemsonD was on the Zero Off payroll. My bad. I just don't think that a simple option like cruise control should require non-warrantied work when they knew it wasn't right to begin with. Lets get real here, a cable costs absolutely no more than $50 (including payroll) to build and a burned CD-rom of a software program costs a $.05. So if they are charging $198 to the consumer, it seems that they are profiting just under 100% gross. Of course, Zero Off might argue that they are a monopoly and extensive man hours were required for R&D, but its still not perfect and their business just stenches of greed!

[2gofaster]

I may be wrong, but I don't think ZO is charging for those updates like that. That may be what your dealer is telling you, though. I know that there is a guy here locally with the cable and he went around one week and updated everyone's he knew in the area. ZO didn't charge him or the people he updated.

[2gofaster]

Wow, that was kind of a bitchy thing to say to a guy that was trying to help. In all actuallity, I have heard that ZO is having to buy that cable from a vendor that charges them a considerable amount and they basically make nothing on the cable when sold to the end user. Hmmmm, wonder when I'm going to get that salary check from ZO. Dave, has yours come recently?

FWIW........I hate ZO, so don't even bring up that Im drinking the coolaid or anything, SuperSquirt. Not because of their business practices at all. Because the slalom pull sucks right now IMO and because I can't get it for my 05.

[SkiTundra]

What is so special about that cable? I have a number of devices that occasionally require software updates and every single one uses a $9 USB cable. My 4 year old TomTom One cost me $139 for the device, software, AND CABLE. Last year I updated the firmware on my camera with a $9 USB cable and as I'm writing this my phone (HTC Kaiser) is getting a new firmware download through a $9 USB cable. My dive watch can be updated either via USB or Bluetooth. Ditto my bike computer.

If they are truly paying $200 for this cable, is there a rational reason for that? Who made the decision to require this cable rather than a $9 cable?

If the cable is a more reasonable $15 or $20 and the remainder of the cost is for the software then why is ZO/CC gouging me like this? If they want to charge for future feature enhancements that's their choice, but to charge me for bug fixes, especially for those that were fixed BEFORE I purchased my boat is something I don't think even my local street corner drug dealer would do.

[ClemsonDave]

Wow, this is great! I AM trying to help you. Ya'll are just making a ton of false assumptions and bashing ZO/CC when it is your dealer that is doing this to you. I see no issue with them charging you for doing that service, but for them to tell you that ZO is charging them for the uprade license is just simply not true. I'm sure they had to pay for the cable, but then you can upgrade as many boats as you want.

I just got off the phone with Jeremy at ZO to confirm before I posted. ZO has NEVER charged for upgrades. If your dealer is charging $250, then that is their choice. They get the upgrades for free just like you would if you sent it in. Call ZO, ask them how much they will charge to upgrade your display.

ZO does not make the cable. They buy it for about $15 less than they are selling it for. Have you ever seen cables that you can tune your car with? They are about the same price. Plugging into a boat/car PCM/ECM is not the same as pulling into a printer or a TomTom. The software/cable to tune my car is around $1500.

Did your dealer tell you that you had version K? According to ZO, there never was a version K.

For now ZO is NOT charging for upgrades. I doubt seriously that will continue. However, to get yours upgraded for FREE, call them. Or, like I said ask them if there is anyone in your area that has a cable. If you are in Va, I'll do it for you. I have upgraded mine 3 times and two other boats twice. I have never been charged for the upgrades. I know two other guys with cables and they have never been charged for upgrades.

....and NO I am not employed by ZO. I just love the pull and have heard some of the things they have planned for the future. I believe they are on the right track. Being new into this venture, I tend to cut them a little slack on some things.

[2gofaster]

What is so special about that cable? I have a number of devices that occasionally require software updates and every single one uses a $9 USB cable. My 4 year old TomTom One cost me $139 for the device, software, AND CABLE. Last year I updated the firmware on my camera with a $9 USB cable and as I'm writing this my phone (HTC Kaiser) is getting a new firmware download through a $9 USB cable. My dive watch can be updated either via USB or Bluetooth. Ditto my bike computer.

If they are truly paying $200 for this cable, is there a rational reason for that? Who made the decision to require this cable rather than a $9 cable?

If the cable is a more reasonable $15 or $20 and the remainder of the cost is for the software then why is ZO/CC gouging me like this? If they want to charge for future feature enhancements that's their choice, but to charge me for bug fixes, especially for those that were fixed BEFORE I purchased my boat is something I don't think even my local street corner drug dealer would do.

ZO used some commercially available hardware that required this special type of cable. This allowed them to get to market quicker than had they designed their own from scratch. Had they been able to use the standard usb or serial cable I'm sure they would have. The fact is that there is only one place for them to get the cable from at this time, therefore that company is charging ZO a premium and they can only get a few at a time from them. Maybe that will change in the future. In the mean time, just pull the unit and send it to ZO and they'll flash it for nothing. You should be bitching at your dealer for raping you instead of ZO.

[2gofaster]

Also, you should be bitching at your dealer for NOT putting the latest firmware on your boat at the time of sale. Obviously they have the cable and could have done that.