Help with decision on a 196 !

[jjackkrash]

the 2002 has the tsc1 hull and the 2003 went to the tsc2 hull

Our club boat is a 2002 and has the TCS2 logo on it ??

I ski them all regularly. I have an 05, a friend has an 06, another has an 01. The 2003-2005 hull has a better slalom wake in my opinion than the 2006+. That said, I'd buy the 2007 and newer because those boats are easily retrofitted with ZO or may already have it. You can put ZO in the 06, but it requires changing the ECM out.

Thanks for the response. Interesting comment about putting up with a wake just to get ZO. Since PP can be upgraded to Stargazer, and I expect that ZO will come out with a retrofit for PP in the spring since they now own PP, why suggest that this is more of a priority than getting a better wake?

I understand the ZO argument, but TBW takes some of the joy out of driving, IMO. It feels sluggish and unresponsive until the speed control locks in compared to a mechanical throttle, at least in the boats I've driven.

[east tx skier]

You can put ZO in the 06, but it requires changing the ECM out.

Pretty sure the 2006 CC still has a cable on the throttle. Mastercrafts 2006-Prostar 190 was the first DBW boat.

CC started DBW in 2007. 2007 needs the ECM change out (pretty sure) and 2008 does not.

I have a 2002 196 (TSC2 Hull) which I love and did take a look at the 2006's a couple of years ago.

The difference in the wakes between 2002 boat and a 2006 (hydrogate) is like splitting hairs. They are both hardcore slalom boats with great wakes. The hydrogate boats seem to have a bit more "froth" to them, IMO. It seems that it's noticeable more so getting up out of the hole or getting up to speed. Once the cruise is locked in, can't tell a difference.


if you want a hardcore slalom boat, a 2002 TSC2 196 boat with a Ford GT-40 motor, Stargazer, gives the sweetest pull you can imagine. the 2003-2004 boats were just as solid but have only the GM engine.



regarding ZO: lots of realistic chatter out there about Stargazer and Z.O. coming out with a "hybrid" style or another upgrade which will mimic each other. Check out www.ballofspray.com or www.thewaterskiforum.com

2006 is the first DBW in a Nautique. MC first used it on their MCX and higher hp equipped boats in 2005, but not their base model engine. I've heard reviews both ways on the CC DBW, but have not driven one. I have driven two different MC's with the DBW and was not a fan. Not enough driver feedback in the control. I like being able to "squeeze" the power up. Not something I felt I could do with that setup.

I own a TSC1, have skied a TSC2 a few times, and have skied a TSC3 many times.

At longer line lengths, the TSC2 was nothing short of mind blowing if memory serves. A 2004 SN was my first experience behind a newer Nautique and even as a happy MC owner, I was hooked.

The TSC3 has only a slightly a bit more bump than the TSC2 did.

When I bought my 1998 Ski, the wake took getting used to, but not much. But after adding an Acme 421 and learning to keep observers out of the corner of the seat, I now absolutely love the wake behind the TSC1 and am no more aware of a bump at long lines than I am behind the TSC2 or TSC3 at this point. It's not even something I think about anymore. Amazing ski boats all.

So unless you trick, I think you'll be happy with any of these 1997 to present.

[2gofaster]

the 2002 has the tsc1 hull and the 2003 went to the tsc2 hull

Our club boat is a 2002 and has the TCS2 logo on it ??

I ski them all regularly. I have an 05, a friend has an 06, another has an 01. The 2003-2005 hull has a better slalom wake in my opinion than the 2006+. That said, I'd buy the 2007 and newer because those boats are easily retrofitted with ZO or may already have it. You can put ZO in the 06, but it requires changing the ECM out.

Thanks for the response. Interesting comment about putting up with a wake just to get ZO. Since PP can be upgraded to Stargazer, and I expect that ZO will come out with a retrofit for PP in the spring since they now own PP, why suggest that this is more of a priority than getting a better wake?

I wouldn't call it "putting up with a wake". There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 06+ wake. I just feel that the 02-05 wake is a bit softer.

[Stevelev]

Just had an opportunity to ski behind an '06 196 Team today after skiing behind our club's 2002 196 and have a few comments. The 2006 is absolutely gorgeous, drove like a dream and seat position felt more "at home" than the 2002. Frankly, the harder wake of the newer boat was very noticeable and I wonder if its the Hydrogate, the hull, the ZR6 or a combination thereof. I skied at 34 mph and perhaps skiing at 22' and 28' off in the course (2002 boat) versus "free" sking behind the TSC3 hydrogate isn't a fair comparison BUT I was honestly disappointed. Perhaps in time I would get used to the firmer wake but every wake cross behind the '06 felt like I was stepping over the wake versus slicing through the '02 TSC2 wake. I guess this is what I would have to get used to (or put up with) versus enjoying the softer wakes of a slightly older boat.

[Stevelev]

It's a competetive mindset. Better to get used to the speed control system, hull and boat that would pull you in a tourney so it's not a change when you do one.

I fully understand the point but since I've never competed and likely won't, I am having difficulty embracing getting used to wakes that are harder than our club's wakes. That said, I absolutely love the speed control and would ski without it !

[DanielC]

This is a list of the major changes on the Ski Nautiques (196) from 1997 to present.
1997 introduced the TSC1 hull. This boat was 19'6" long, and was produced in both a closed bow, and an open bow configuration.
2000 introduced the teleflex digital gauges, and the big "N" stripe. Still the TSC1 hull. My opinion, the gauge change was not an improvement, and the "N" was ugly. The gas tank was also moved partially under the rear seat, and the rear seat back was set up to slide up to allow some storage under the back deck. You lost the ability to completely remove the back seat, and have a clear floor.
2002 introduced the TSC2 hull on the closed bow boat only. This hull also had a trunk that opened conventially. The SNOB (Ski Nautique Open Bow) used the TSC1 hull in 2002.
2002 was the last year for the SNOB. Early in the 2002 model year, the last of the available Ford 351 engines were used, and were no longer available.
2003 introduced the 206 to replace thr SNOB.
2006 introduced the TSC3 hull, I think. Somebody correct me if I an wrong.
The TSC1 Hull does not have lifting shrakes on it.
The TSC2 added them, and got a wider tunnel under the propeller.
The TSC3 hull lost the lifting shrakes, and the hydrogate became an option.
In 1999, through 2002, I think you could get the Python engine in a Ski Nautique. I am not sure of when the Python engine was no longer put in the Ski Nautique. Python engine, 430 HP, over 500 Ft-lbs torque. Our ski team pulled a 14 person pyramid with a Python equipped boat.

[M3Fan]

2000 introduced the teleflex digital gauges, and the big "N" stripe. Still the TSC1 hull. My opinion, the gauge change was not an improvement, and the "N" was ugly. The gas tank was also moved partially under the rear seat, and the rear seat back was set up to slide up to allow some storage under the back deck. You lost the ability to completely remove the back seat, and have a clear floor.

The back seat storage was an option that not all 2000 boats have. Mine doesn't have it. I can remove my rear seat completely. You didn't necessarily have to get the N either. The addition of the SmartPod and new helm layout were biggies this year. The SmartPod was a massive step forward in the SN evolution IMHO.

[Stevelev]

^ Great info DanielC and M3Fan, thanks.

I wonder if the harder wakes of the newer boats comes from the TCS3 hull or Hydrogate? A professional driver told me that Hydrogate isn't used in slalom competitions and if required they'll place 60 lbs at the very front of the boat to reduce/soften the wakes.

[j2nh]

Hydrogate

Is this correct?
My understanding:

Between 05 and 06 the lip at the back of the hull was trimmed off and replaced with the Hydrogate. When up the hull rides lower in the back and you end up with a better trick wake. In 06 the trick tank option for the 196 was eliminated because of this feature.

Gate is normally run in the down position for slalom skiing, simulates TCS2 hull (puts the lip back).

Mega jumpers run with the gate up as the acceleration is better, less drag.

[DanielC]

M3fan, I missed the smartpod. It was a good idea, and a nice improvement.
My biggest problem with the change is that you went from white faced gauges, with black numbers, and an orange pointer to a green gauge, with blue numbers, and pointers, that disappeared almost completely under some angles of illumination, especially if you were wearing polarized sunglasses.
Many of the changes made in a boat model occur mid year. The gas tank change was one of them. My guess, when the tank change was made, the new parts were ordered, and while the ordering was going on, the old parts were used up. This process could very happen at anytime in the model year for any change.
I wonder if there is a list somewhere of all the minor and major changes Correct Craft made in their boats, that is available to the public?

[causewayskiier]

What hull would a '07 206 have? Do all TSC3 hulls have the hydrogate or is it an option?

[SGY]

The 07 206 has the TSC3 hull.

Stevelev, I own a 2005 196 and ski behind a 2007 196 all the time. I don't notice any difference at 15 off. Are you sure the hydro gate was in the down position? The hydro gate in the up/trick/jump position will make a noticeable difference in both the wake and the pull. Also, the ZR6 is a beastie and will pull you off edge more readily if you don't have good body position. Hitting the wake with a flat ski will wake you up no matter what boat you're skiing behind.

Did you ski the same rope lengths and speeds behind the TSC3 boat compared to the TSC2 boat? Rope length makes a difference as does speed. Generally, the shorter you go, the better the wake. (This general rule is debatable when shortening from 15 off to 22 off, however.) Finally, your point about free skiing vs course skiing is significant. When I free ski, I notice the wake much more than when I course ski. When doing the latter, your more apt to stay down and on edge. Get the TSC3 boat in the course and make your decision.

[Stevelev]

The 07 206 has the TSC3 hull.

Stevelev, I own a 2005 196 and ski behind a 2007 196 all the time. I don't notice any difference at 15 off. Are you sure the hydro gate was in the down position? The hydro gate in the up/trick/jump position will make a noticeable difference in both the wake and the pull. Also, the ZR6 is a beastie and will pull you off edge more readily if you don't have good body position. Hitting the wake with a flat ski will wake you up no matter what boat you're skiing behind.

Did you ski the same rope lengths and speeds behind the TSC3 boat compared to the TSC2 boat? Rope length makes a difference as does speed. Generally, the shorter you go, the better the wake. (This general rule is debatable when shortening from 15 off to 22 off, however.) Finally, your point about free skiing vs course skiing is significant. When I free ski, I notice the wake much more than when I course ski. When doing the latter, your more apt to stay down and on edge. Get the TSC3 boat in the course and make your decision.

Thanks for the add'l feedback. The same lengths and speed were used and the gate was in the slalom position. I'm certain the add'l power of the ZR6 was not a factor. I wish I could have tried the 2007 in the course but it just wasn't an option. I did free ski behind the TCS2 boat the following day to compare and realized that there's little to no diff at 22' off. That said, it felt like the wake at 28' off is virtually non-existant behind the 2002. All of that said, I plan to continue to do most of my skiing in the course so it really shouldn't matter what its like to free ski behind whatever I get ... I guess at the end of the day, if I can get a low hours 2007 for close to the price of a really nice 2005 I've been eyeing then I'll end up with a great ride and many years of enjoyment!

[SGY]

Interesting. I'm very surprised you noticed a difference between the two boats. I don't ski at 22 off so I'll take your word for it.

I personally like my 2005 196. The non TBW boat, in my mind, runs better and has better throttle feel. Good luck on your search and keep us posted.

P.S. I wondering if the 196 with the 6 liter has a different prop.

[DavidG]

Another opinion on what you can put ZO in

I ski them all regularly. I have an 05, a friend has an 06, another has an 01. The 2003-2005 hull has a better slalom wake in my opinion than the 2006+. That said, I'd buy the 2007 and newer because those boats are easily retrofitted with ZO or may already have it. You can put ZO in the 06, but it requires changing the ECM out.

I just bought an '09 196 and had lots of discussions with the local experts and what I learned is a TINY bit different from your discovery. Only late production run of 06 196's had TBW and can therefore take ZO. However, just like '07, you need an ECM flash but it is no big deal. Maybe not all '07's needed the flash but the one I looked at was going to need it. Obviously '08 and '09 take ZO straight up. Anyone hear something different? I got this from a fellow at the factory.