How many hours is too many hours on a GT-40

[Northof49]

I had a look at a 2000 SN for sale with 2250 hrs on it. What do you think is too many hours or what is it worth to drop a new engine in to what appears to be a perfect condition boat?

[AirTool]

RE: How many hours is too many hours on a GT-40

IMO, hours affects the upholstery more than the engine. Run a dry/wet compression test...use the results as a basis for your offer.

AirTool

[DanielC]

RE: How many hours is too many hours on a GT-40

Just like air tool said, do the compression test. Test drive the boat first, if at all possible. The compression test will be more accurate. I am guessing that with your name, you live in Canada, it might be hard to test drive the boat.
Reality is that with many hours on the engine, it probably was started and ran when it was warm a lot more than a low hour engine. It did not sit for long periods of non use, allowing time for oil to drain and run off the internal parts, causing increased wear the next time it was started.
If the boat is a really good deal for its visual condition, you might want to look into the cost of getting the motor rebuilt, and factor that into your buying decision.
Another factor with the boat is have the gauges been upgraded yet.

[TravisFling]

RE: How many hours is too many hours on a GT-40

You also have to figure for the engine that this is pretty much a car engine, and although they run at a lower temperature, which is a little harder on the engine that engine still probably has a lot of life in it. My Chevy truck as 1053 hours and 33407 miles, so that many hours might equal 66k miles equivalent, plus maybe 20% for colder temps... anyway, I don't know for sure but it's just interesting information to put out there, I suppose.

[Northof49]

Thanks for the replies

I am located in northern BC, Canada, however the boat is in Washington, thus there still is opportunity to water test the boat. Thanks for the comparison between hours and km's (sorry miles) as 1000hrs is really not that many miles given my personal 2001 Chevy has ~100,000miles and is running strong. Time to start shoveling my driveway of the 5cm of snow that fell last night!!

Rebuild seem to be in numerous used boats. Members past experience with costs would be appreciated!

[bkhallpass]

RE: Thanks for the replies

Unfortunately, comparing boat hours to auto hours is not an accurate comparison.
2250 is a lot of hours for a year 2000 boat. But, it doesn't necesarily mean the boat will not run strong for years to come. Most people put only 50 to100 hours on a boat per season. PCM says that on avearge it's motors will require rebuild at about 2500 hous. But, then again, PCM is anticipating that it will take 10, 20, 30 years to get to 2500. If the boat has been well maintained, and if the compression checks out, then you probably have years to run. I personally know of boats that have exceeded 4000 hours wihout rebuild. With that many hours, I would expect you to pay about 50% of what you might pay for a low hours boat. I saw a 98 Ski Nautique with similar hours going for under 10K this Summer. BKH

[GoBig]

RE: Thanks for the replies

The endless engine hour debate --- High hours is not necessarily a bad thing. Low hour boats that have sat around without proper maintenance may have dry cracked hoses and gaskets and could cause more issues/headaches that a high hour boat. It really all depends on how the boat has been maintained. Ask to see maintenance records. If he doesn't have them, call the dealer where he serviced his boat and request a maintenance log (most CC dealers that I've worked with will provide this). If he has done his own service, be sure to thoroughly demo the boat and have a mechanical inspection completed by a PCM shop. Personally, I would take a well maintained boat with high hours over a low hour poorly maintained boat anyday. Just my $0.02.

[INVNO1]

RE: Thanks for the replies

While you most certainly would want a compression test done, don't forget about the leakdown test also. It can give you valueable information about the condition of the valves, rings, etc. and how they compare in each cylinder. I second GoBig's comment about high hours/well maintained vs low hour POS. With those kind of hours, It's obviously been reliable for someone.

[Rick]

RE: Thanks for the replies

I bought my 2000SN 3 years ago with 1300 hours on it. At the time it was a lake boat and the mechanic had the records. He was changing the oil every 50 hours... Every weekend in the summer. I spoke to PCM and they reccommend a rebuild at approximately 2400 hours. Figure $3000 for a rebuild. If the boat is clean and well cared for hours really can vary. I know one team thast just sold their Malibu with over 4000 hours on it. It still ran well with compression within 7%.

[gride300]

RE: Thanks for the replies

so as the engine wears compression falls? and a rebuild is the solution?

[bkhallpass]

RE: Thanks for the replies

I'm not a mechanic, but I will take a stab at this gride. My father was a mechanic and
I wish I had learned more from him.

Over time, the mechanical components of an engine wear out. You can extend this period of time with regular oil changes, and with use of the engine. When an engine sits for months without use, the oil all drains to the bottom. On startup, moving components are metal to metal until oil gets circulated through the system. This is why a high hours engine that was used and maintained regularly is often in better shape than a low hours boat that sat around. In addition, gaskets will dry out when an engine is not used, carburators will gum up, fuel lines will gum up, etc.

Regardless of how you maintain an engine, these are metal components, moving in circles, or up and down, and subject to big changes in heat. No matter how well you lubricate, there will eventually be wear. In the case of compression, the piston rings will commonly wear down. This leaves a gap between the rings and the cylinder wall that is higher than the expected tolerance, and compression is reduced. Compression and detonation can also be impacted by worn or carbonated valves, worn pistons, or wear on the cyclinder walls.

In a rebuild, the engine is torn down, and worn components are replaced or machined. These might include rings, bearings, valves, pistons, rods, rockers, heads, and cylinder walls. The cam shaft and oil pump should be checked and may or may not need to be replaced. Gaskets are replaced. The net result is a refurbished engine which brings the
specs and tolerances back to original (at least in theory). By changing cams, pistons, vales, etc. you can also change the cubic displacement of the engine, change the stroke of of the piston, or change the compression and thereby impact horsepower.

BKH

[Mikeski]

RE: Thanks for the replies

Here is a simple test you can do that will give you some idea of the internal motor condition.

Start the motor with water with it cold (don't let the owner warm it up before you get there).

In the bright light you will likely see a hint of blue smoke for the first 30 seconds or so. This is an indicator of the valve guide wear, the longer it takes for the blue smoke to clear the worse the valve guides are worn indicating the general condition of the heads. Smell the exhaust, you should be able to smell a sweetish smell of burning oil. If it had too much fuel in the intake track gas smell will mask the oil smell.

After 2-3 minutes, look at the vapors rising from the exhaust, if they are still blue in the bright light the rings are well work and it probably needs a re-build. Smell the exhaust again, if it still smells like gas it is running rich (combined with dark smoke), if it burns your eyes it is running lean and may have a vacuum leak. If it has been running lean for long it will also likely need a rebuild soon.

If there is no smoke or odor, do the compression test, if compression is consistent and high good chance you will get another 500+ hours on the motor.

[maxpower220]

Re: RE: Thanks for the replies

so as the engine wears compression falls? and a rebuild is the solution?

That is a usual problem with engines. There are a couple of compression numbers, the overall number (which should be at least 125 psi) and a comparision of each cylinder to each other (which should be within 10%). If both of those parameters are met, then that would be a normal indication of a motor with a lot of hours that does not need a rebuild.
By comparision, a new engine will have compressions in the 160-180 psi range and usually within 2% of each other.

Rebuild is one way to get the compression back up and closer together. If you can pull the engine yourself and take it to a machine shop, it could cost as little as $1000 for a rebuild. Paying someone else to pull it and reinstall will cost much more. At some point, you must consider a new crate engine. It will cost a little more (or a lot depending on the condition of your old motor), but if you keep the boat for another 2000 hours, the new engine will probably last longer.

[TravisFling]

RE: Re: RE: Thanks for the replies

I bet everyone else is like me and is waiting on DanielC to chime in. His boat has over 2k hours and runs like a top, from what I understand, but it's probably the most frequently and professionally maintained Nautique on the planet, also from what I understand. You'll learn that people that love their nautiques develop a sickness... I started refinishing my teak, and then the gelcoat, and then the stereo.... I wrapped up for the night and came inside and the wife informed me I'd missed two of the kids birthdays... It happens quicker than you think... Just joking, but the point being that "most" of us spend a lot of time doing the things that keep these boats nice for a long time to come. The tests mentioned before will certainly help determine the quality of the engine, but if it's "otherwise perfect" I wouldn't shy away from it because of the hours on the boat. Service records and compression tests should give you a pretty good idea-r.
Travis

[DanielC]

Thanks, Travis. I just wish I could get the upholstery back to good condition, with out buying new. Check the third post in this thread.
I have heard that on Lake Shasta, you can rent Correct Craft boats. I have been told they have boats with 8000 hours on a engine, before rebuild. I also heard they do put a throttle stop on the engine that prevents WOT.
I have not seen the boats in person, or the throttle stop, but it sounds beliveable to me.
You can do a search on this forum, using hours for a search term, and find a lot more threads about this topic.