Zero Off on Non TBW boat

[SGY]

If a guy was so inclined and cost was not an issue, could a 2005 196 be upgraded with ZOff? A guy at the lake the other day was insisting it could happen with a change to the electronics in that boat. I was under the previous understanding that it can't be done.

[Teleman]

RE: Zero Off on Non TBW boat

With enough money, and fuel, anything can be done......

[2gofaster]

RE: Zero Off on Non TBW boat

Sure it can be done. Needs new ecm, complete engine harness, dash harness, throttle body, throttle/shifter control, throttle harness, plus the zero off. If it's a limited you'll also have to change the gateway and gauges tot he 07+. You're talking over $8k in parts before labor.

[SGY]

RE: Zero Off on Non TBW boat

Thanks Shane. That's what I needed to know.

[BrennanK]

I was under the impression that Zero Off was planning on releasing a version that was compatible with non DBW boats so 2007 and younger. Has anyone else heard this, I can remember where I heard it...?

[MHayes]

I was under the impression that Zero Off was planning on releasing a version that was compatible with non DBW boats so 2007 and younger. Has anyone else heard this, I can remember where I heard it...?

My understanding is that the TBW boats will be Zero Off's business and the non-TBW boats will fall under Perfect Pass's business, as a result of legal proceedings.

[BrennanK]

I was under the impression that Zero Off was planning on releasing a version that was compatible with non DBW boats so 2007 and younger. Has anyone else heard this, I can remember where I heard it...?

My understanding is that the TBW boats will be Zero Off's business and the non-TBW boats will fall under Perfect Pass's business, as a result of legal proceedings.

Haa, that would make sense.. Thanks for clearing that up..

[SGY]

Who else is displeased with this zero off issue? Here I have a 2005 196 that I paid a premium for due to its quality and durability and now it's obsolete for tournament use and practice. What's even more frustrating is that CC was a major influence in the introduction of ZO to the market. This is not the first time a sanctioning body has come under the influence of a manufacturer. What rational reason did AWSA have to limit tournaments to ZO? I'd love to know. Otherwise, it appears as though the rule was implemented not to help skiers, but to aid manufacturers, including CC and the folks that manufacturer ZO speed control. Unless you look at it from the manufacturers' perspective, it sure seems to wag the dog to force skiers that have perfectly good boats to buy new boats for speed control.

Maybe I'm just cranky this morning. Sorry for the rant.

[2gofaster]

Well, we've had over a year to be displeased since the patent swap and agreement that gave us only ZO in 07 and newer boats. I'm over it now and resigned to buy a zo boat. Sold my 05 last week and hope to have the new boat in the next 3-4 weeks.

[gunnin4six]

SGY, I was not aware that AWSA had limited tourneys to ZO. Are you talking just Record or class C as well? And why would AWSA care how the speed was controlled as long as the speed/time requirements are met?

[SGY]

My understanding is that all AWSA tourneys are limited now to ZOff. If I'm wrong, then forget about my rant and I'll back off on my manufacturer/sanctioning body antitrust complaint that I'm preparing...

Ha!

I hear ya Shane. Are you getting Mark's boat? I'm sure that's a sweet boat. So is Clemson Dave's boat. Are you at all tempted to plunk down cash on a 200?

[ClemsonDave]

It is a complicated issue. AWSA has never mandated the use of ZO or PP. All they do is approve/deny boats provided by the manufacturers. PP/SG is allowed according to AWSA. However, all new promo boats (starting in '09) only have ZO (unless the owner purchased SG separately). This is a choice by the manufacturers (and the agreement between ZO and PP).

SGY, I agree that it sucks that you cannot put ZO in boats that are only 4-5 years old. On the other hand, I see people come to tons of tournaments that have boats that are 10+ yrs old. Of course, to each their own, but these boats are built so well that they are lasting forever. This reduces the market place for promo boats. If promo boats don't sell, you eventually will not find them at tournaments. Then what do we do? If we want to ski behind brand new boats at tournaments, everyone needs to step up. If that is not the case, then the rules for how old of a boat can be used needs to be changed and we'll need to figure out how to compensate individuals for bringing a boat.

It will cost me over $10k to stay in the program this year. I'll probably sell my baby (750hp vette) to offset this cost. I know of many guys that are dropping out of the program (probably smarter than me). I do it so I will get to ski behind a Nautique at tournaments and so I can help the ski community. Then I get tons of emails saying mine has too many hours. I bet I've had well over 50 in the year I have been trying to sell it. Pretty frustrating.

This discussion is happening on the local, regional and national level. I think everyone is recognizing we are headed for a train wreck.

[SGY]

I stand corrected. Thanks Dave. I guess I should have read the rules before popping off.

Brilliant move by ZOff to leverage a settlement with PP that basically eliminates the competition on speed control for new boats.

[AirTool]

What if I have a 2006 TBW and want to change to ZOff? I've heard if I lie and say it is an 07 I can save money on the upgrade.

Is it possible on 06 TBW and how much does it cost?

[pj]

AirTool,
I think you also need a different ECU which they didn't switch to until mid-'07