200 booked thru December!!

[cotton]

Seriously, in my humble opinion they went for the open bow market that MC and Malibu have

I agree totally. On March 1 of this year as a newbie having looked for about a month for a used SN I posted this thread: "196 closed bow "misses the boat" on better resale"
http://www.planetnautique.com/index....&postorder=asc

5 days later we bought a 206 and what started out as a family boat purchase has turned into that + my and the wife’s quest to run buoys (until she broke her arm trying). Since school started and the kids are done for the summer, the boat has been used almost exclusively at a private lake community designed for slalom skiers. Obviously a 196 would work for the wife and I but the kids could not care less about slalom skiing and the open bow is a must for those big water trips with them and their friends.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but it’s my understanding for years MC has sold more ski boats the CC. If so, one has to assume this is because of the open bow and CC had to deal with that.

[INVNO1]

Too bad. Bring back the Barefoot Nautique! Yellow_Flash_Colorz:

Wasn't the BFN a deeper/heavier hull? What was the top speed?

What's the top speed of a BFN , or "Tim's BFN" ?! Benj's BFN runs slightly over 42mph, from what I hear :mrgreen: Just slightly......

[DanielC]

This is why an open bow is a compromised design. It is not as strong. Think of a cross section, of the boat, about where the windshield is. It is "U" shaped. To prevent the legs of "U" from flexing too much in rough water, you have to build the bottom of the "U" stronger, and heavier. It you close the top of the "U" you can add rigidity with very little extra material.
You can design a closed bow boat with the same rigidity with less material, and less weight. Less weight, less water displaced, smaller wake. A lighter boat will also accelerate quicker.
An open bow also defines how far forward you can put the helm. This in turn defines how far forward you can put the engine.
If you did not start the design process with the preconceived notion that you will accommodate an open bow, you would have more latitude to design a better boat. A lighter boat, that performs better.

[SNMike]

Mike:
Still a newbie with my 4th. Hope there will be a 5th, time and CC will tell. Standing joke in my house when I purchase a new one that it will be "the last one", when everybody knows it won't be.

I skied the boat at 15 and 28 @34 and the wake was different, but I can't say it was better than a 196. Please post your reaction, I will be curious to see what you think.

As for the rest, It's their company and I am just the customer. Wider beam will be a plus for people that trailer and spend days on the water but sacrificing some of the defining characteristics of the 196 does not impress me.

Peace
Jim

Understood Jim! I'll post my findings sir.

Peace back!!

Mike

[SNMike]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but it’s my understanding for years MC has sold more ski boats the CC. If so, one has to assume this is because of the open bow and CC had to deal with that.

From my understanding, info from my insider, it's a matter of how one tally's their sales.

MC "gave away/donated" lots of boats, and "forced" a substantial number of boats on their dealers and called them "sales'. CC does not play that game. And rarely gives anything away.

Regards cotton!!!

Mike

[SkiTower]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but it’s my understanding for years MC has sold more ski boats the CC. If so, one has to assume this is because of the open bow and CC had to deal with that.

From my understanding, info from my insider, it's a matter of how one tally's their sales.

MC "gave away/donated" lots of boats, and "forced" a substantial number of boats on their dealers and called them "sales'. CC does not play that game. And rarely gives anything away.

Regards cotton!!!

Mike

What also might come into play is that Mastercraft more aggressively markets their product. CC is the best and anybody in the market knows that, but MC hits those that don't know what they are doing (aka. first timers). So their overall sales MIGHT be more, but customer loyality and satisfaction probably aren't.

[SNMike]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but it’s my understanding for years MC has sold more ski boats the CC. If so, one has to assume this is because of the open bow and CC had to deal with that.

From my understanding, info from my insider, it's a matter of how one tally's their sales.

MC "gave away/donated" lots of boats, and "forced" a substantial number of boats on their dealers and called them "sales'. CC does not play that game. And rarely gives anything away.

Regards cotton!!!

Mike

What also might come into play is that Mastercraft more aggressively markets their product. CC is the best and anybody in the market knows that, but MC hits those that don't know what they are doing (aka. first timers). So their overall sales MIGHT be more, but customer loyality and satisfaction probably aren't.

I agree! The MC dealer in Orlando, formally known as SECC, is sitting on NEW 06, yes 06, thru 09 boats right now. Not good.

Regards ST!!

Mike

[2gofaster]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but it’s my understanding for years MC has sold more ski boats the CC. If so, one has to assume this is because of the open bow and CC had to deal with that.

From my understanding, info from my insider, it's a matter of how one tally's their sales.

MC "gave away/donated" lots of boats, and "forced" a substantial number of boats on their dealers and called them "sales'. CC does not play that game. And rarely gives anything away.

Regards cotton!!!

Mike

I'm not saying it's true, but a dealer told me each CC dealer was being required to order a 200.

[j2nh]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but it’s my understanding for years MC has sold more ski boats the CC. If so, one has to assume this is because of the open bow and CC had to deal with that.

From my understanding, info from my insider, it's a matter of how one tally's their sales.

MC "gave away/donated" lots of boats, and "forced" a substantial number of boats on their dealers and called them "sales'. CC does not play that game. And rarely gives anything away.

Regards cotton!!!

Mike

What also might come into play is that Mastercraft more aggressively markets their product. CC is the best and anybody in the market knows that, but MC hits those that don't know what they are doing (aka. first timers). So their overall sales MIGHT be more, but customer loyality and satisfaction probably aren't.

I agree! The MC dealer in Orlando, formally known as SECC, is sitting on NEW 06, yes 06, thru 09 boats right now. Not good.

Regards ST!!

Mike

Mastercraft builds a good quality product, competition is always good and the presence of competition is, in my opinion, one of the reasons that CC has constantly improved its products that we all enjoy so much.

Again, just my opinion, MC got into trouble in 07 when it partnered with the Penske Group and came out with its plan to DOUBLE its revenue in 5 years thru expansion. Clearly no one anticipated the financial downturn but the worst of all scenarios is to be gearing up for a very aggressive expansion and then get slammed with a devastating reduction in sales.
Market share is certainly important but less important than maintaining plant capacity. Better to have a smaller facility running more than a larger facility running less. Fixed costs are the killer.
It's tough out there.

[ScarletArrow]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but it’s my understanding for years MC has sold more ski boats the CC. If so, one has to assume this is because of the open bow and CC had to deal with that.

From my understanding, info from my insider, it's a matter of how one tally's their sales.

MC "gave away/donated" lots of boats, and "forced" a substantial number of boats on their dealers and called them "sales'. CC does not play that game. And rarely gives anything away.

Regards cotton!!!

Mike

I'm not saying it's true, but a dealer told me each CC dealer was being required to order a 200.

Dealers are required to order 3 boats each year...not sure the 200 has to be one of them.

[oldslalomskier]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but it’s my understanding for years MC has sold more ski boats the CC. If so, one has to assume this is because of the open bow and CC had to deal with that.

From my understanding, info from my insider, it's a matter of how one tally's their sales.

MC "gave away/donated" lots of boats, and "forced" a substantial number of boats on their dealers and called them "sales'. CC does not play that game. And rarely gives anything away.

Mike

Sorry Mike - that is simply incorrect. Sales figures are calculated by state registrations. You can check Soundings for the latest stats from SSI who compiles them. MC and Malibu have outsold CC for what seems like forever. But who cares - McDonalds sells lots of hamburgers that I say can hardly pass for food.

[SNMike]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but it’s my understanding for years MC has sold more ski boats the CC. If so, one has to assume this is because of the open bow and CC had to deal with that.

From my understanding, info from my insider, it's a matter of how one tally's their sales.

MC "gave away/donated" lots of boats, and "forced" a substantial number of boats on their dealers and called them "sales'. CC does not play that game. And rarely gives anything away.

Mike

Sorry Mike - that is simply incorrect. Sales figures are calculated by state registrations. You can check Soundings for the latest stats from SSI who compiles them. MC and Malibu have outsold CC for what seems like forever. But who cares - McDonalds sells lots of hamburgers that I say can hardly pass for food.

Understood budro!! My info says that both BU and MC "force" a significant amount of boats on their dealer's, and as soon as they leave the factory, it's counted as a sale. In their eyes. Because they now belong to the dealer, not the factory. That may be of matter of semantics, but that's how I'm told they count their sales. Just sayin' mi amigo!! :grin:

[Hollywood]

And what does selling the most boats really mean anyway? Just like the McDonald's analogy, Honda sure sells a lot of cars but Ferrari owners seem happy with their wheels... Like Daniel was eluding to before, CC used to build the best ski boat, that was their motto. Now it seems more about selling boats and making $$$.

[SNMike]

And what does selling the most boats really mean anyway? Just like the McDonald's analogy, Honda sure sells a lot of cars but Ferrari owners seem happy with their wheels... Like Daniel was eluding to before, CC used to build the best ski boat, that was their motto. Now it seems more about selling boats and making $$$.

Except for their 6 consecutive JD Powers award. Pretty sure that means something. :grin:

[oldslalomskier]

KoolAid.