Just 1 option Correct Craft!

[Roddyj]

off topic a bit; am i the only one that sees a problem with EVERYTHING being dependent on this LINK system? Seems like a lot of hassle and potential problems to have a shiny touch screen.

and going on what daniel said. a 100k "wake" boat that doesnt even have the ability to properly control speed on a river? If you cant even MAKE it work, as someone mentioned PP will NOT work on 09 and above, that is no good. A LOT of people ride on rivers...............

my 01 super sport just keeps getting better and better!!! i love it.

[TRST]

ZERO OFF INTRODUCES RIVER MODE
June 16, 2008
AquaStar, Inc. releases a Correct Craft exclusive 2009 update to the Zero Off GPS speed control system.

River Mode is a user interface for estimating both up stream and downstream river current without the use of a paddle wheel. The River mode UP/DNStream icon switches back and forth during the turns as you turn against or with the current. The river current estimate value will be added to (DNStream) or subtracted from (UPStream) the base speed setpoint and should deliver a reasonably consistent speed over the water. If you disable the River Mode, the new icons will disappear and the setspeed will track the normal setspeed regardless of direction

[DanielC]

How well does "river mode" work when the river changes direction? What about differences in speed from one side of the river to the other? I quite often go around a 170 degree bend in the Willamette river. The river current also varies a lot with the depth and width of the river.
Almost all recreational skiing, and a majority of competition skiing is done with the speed relative to the water.
All we are asking for is a speed control system that takes that into account. Like to one we had before.
It would be nice to have a choice.

[dizzyj]

seriously, that river mode is a total joke. Its obviously created by someone who has no idea how a river works. I really dont understand why this isnt a bigger issue 50-100k on the perfect "ski" boat that gives a messed up pull. Im glad I have an 07 with perfect pass dbw with a paddlewheel. last real wake boats made. Ill never own a boat with zo, nor ride behind one. way to come out with a totally inferior product and hamstring a sport.

[JohnE]

I think this conversation is ridiculous. What you want is available from PP. Are you worried about the $1K or the fact that the product isn't from ZO? What if your dealer throws in PP for free, then will you buy?

Perhaps you find it whining or something... But I find it ridiculous that Correct Craft is making wakeboard boats which cannot hold speed properly on a river!

And off cource I don't care about the 1k a Perfect Pass costs, I just wan't an integrated system working with the LINC system or even without LINC, but just standard from the factory!

A lot of people on the other side of the pond are complaining about the ZO-system. It just don't work on a river!

My response was based on the fact that I thought that PP would work.

Isn't the real problem based on the decision by the manufacturers to choose ZO over PP? CC, MC, and BU made a bad choice by choosing ZO. There weren't many complaints about PP, so why change?

[2gofaster]

When PP first came out in 98 everyone HATED it. Then they made changes over the next two years and it became the defacto standard for 8 years. Same thing is happening with ZO. As a slalom skier, it set me back over 1 full pass in 2008 which is huge. But over the last year and a half, they listened to skiers and have a pull now that I absolutely love. Times change. Technology changes. Someone should put a concerted effort together to gather some data and issues with using ZO on a river and call ZO and CC up. CC's customer service listens, especially if you can provide them data from many users with issues.

[Roddyj]

why should customers have to call and complain more when it is a KNOWN problem. they know is doesnt work for jack in a river, what else could we as consumers tell them.

[2gofaster]

So your plan is just to sit here and complain about it? What good does that do you?

[Craft]

The reason why you should call CC and complain is to make something happen. If they know about it, but nobody else logs complaints with them, then it must not be a big deal. The more registered complaints, the better.

[east tx skier]

John, for what it's worth, SG won't do any better on a river than ZO. To deal with river currents, his best option is going to be an older version of Perfect Pass WB Pro or DP with a paddle wheel. Speed over water is the key when dealing with a river. Neither pure gps system is going to deal with that too well unless they have some reliable input on the rate of the current.

It seems to me that something could be designed as a river mode where you hit some function setup while in neutral, let's call it "current rate test." The test lasts about 30 seconds and measures the amount the boat drifts during that time. It takes that data and applies it to that skiing/boarding session. There may be something to it that I'm missing. But this seems like it would adequately deal with the problem.

Discuss.

I think this conversation is ridiculous. What you want is available from PP. Are you worried about the $1K or the fact that the product isn't from ZO? What if your dealer throws in PP for free, then will you buy?

Perhaps you find it whining or something... But I find it ridiculous that Correct Craft is making wakeboard boats which cannot hold speed properly on a river!

And off cource I don't care about the 1k a Perfect Pass costs, I just wan't an integrated system working with the LINC system or even without LINC, but just standard from the factory!

A lot of people on the other side of the pond are complaining about the ZO-system. It just don't work on a river!

My response was based on the fact that I thought that PP would work.

Isn't the real problem based on the decision by the manufacturers to choose ZO over PP? CC, MC, and BU made a bad choice by choosing ZO. There weren't many complaints about PP, so why change?

[ClemsonDave]

Not the answer to your problem, buy you could put ZO into practice mode then adjust to the 0.1mph to your liking. Of course, when you go the opposite direction, you'd have to adjust again.

[DanielC]

I believe there are some not obvious reasons for this current state of discontent with speed control systems choice.
First of all, the way the throttle is controlled is different. The newest boats do not have a physical connection between the throttle handle, and the throttle body on the motor. On the old system, you moved the throttle handle, that pulled a cable that moved a butterfly on the throttle body. The TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) on the throttle body inputted information to the engine computer, and it adjusted its outputs to make the motor run good.
The newer GM engines do not have a direct connection. They have a electric motor open and close the throttle butterfly. When the throttle handle is moved, the throttle handle sensor sends that information to the engine computer, and as a output, the engine computer opens and closes the throttle butterfly on the throttle body, according to what the engine computer thinks is appropriate.
I believe Perfect Pass has the patent on speed control systems that use a cable to pull the throttle butterfly open. Zero Off has the patent on throttle by wire systems.
I am guessing Correct Craft might have helped develop Zero Off. They were the first manufacturer to use it. I do not know how much Correct Craft helped with development of Zero Off, or what they are legally required to do now, but that might be an issue. I know nothing about this, it is just a wild guess. Correct Craft might just want to recoup development costs.
It might be that the two different throttle control systems are too different to be able to offer the choice.

[Laptom]

Thanks for this discussion.
My point is the same as some above. I will not buy a new boat with the current speed control. I drove the newer ZO version (2009) with the river mode, but as stated before, this is a complete joke! The river current is not always the same!!! You have bridges, shallow places, corners, wide rivers, etc, etc.. I thought about it before, but the only solution I can see right now is a plain old paddle wheel. Don't get me wrong, I really like ZO on lakes. I think it is a great product and would love to use it, but not on a river. Then the speed control is inferiour (sp?)! It doesn't matter if a boat is dbw or not, if you have a cable or not, etc. That is just the output of the system. The current ZO system is lagging inputs (river speed at the point of the boat)!!!!

I'm sure CC is reading this forum, so I'm just shouting out (loud): Just one option in 2011 CC: Real river input on ZO, I like the rest!!

[robertsmcfarland]

Correct Craft and Zero have been told since the the fall 2007 there was a problem each time they acted like it was the first time somebody had a problem and they never heard it before, can't answer about the river problem but the porpoising I can, will be trying out the new ZO antenna on a 230 this weekend at Hyco, Let you know if it works.

[dizzyj]

same here, I would not buy a boat with ZO period. Here in austin, our primary places to ride are rivers. Have a gps only control is just stupid. Its a gadget that significantly interferes with the quality of our sport. The only thing I can say is that obviously 99% of the people buying a cc (or mc, or bu) have no idea about the sport, and its all about having the toy that looks good. Even reading this thread, its apprent that the issue is not fully understood.

The way I see it, you have a company ,ZO, who took someone else's idea, did an very obvious and minor change and made it first to the patent house. The stole someone else's business, they did not compete in the market place. All the while havening a vastly inferior product that hurts the customers they are supposedly supporting. crooked bastards if you ask me.

I've actually spent time on the phone with one of the programmers at perfect pass. Being an engineer myself, we spend ~ and hour or so talking about the various ways a paddle wheel and gps could compliment each other, and every thing we came up caused the gps to be a "dont care" in the equation. The only thing that made sense was to use the gps to calibrate the paddle wheel, but even that could only be done when there was no current.

robert, if you 230 is proposing, throw some weight in the nose. I run about 1k in mine. pp/zo, shouldnt ahve any effect on that.