2009 Boat Sales Stats through 2nd quarter

[Nautiqueman]

The only reason CC doesn't beat the numbers of MC and Bu is the Nautiques last too long and don't need replacing. Try a 10 year old MC compared to the Nautique and you will understand the value. Of course, if you can't see any difference, get the Bu or MC, and you will be happy. I think it just comes down to what you demand in quality. If you can't tell the difference, don't get a nautique. Kind of like Walmart wine compared to Kendall Jackson... or Yeagermeister compared to 21 year Scotch...

[Oletimeskier]

The only reason CC doesn't beat the numbers of MC and Bu is the Nautiques last too long and don't need replacing. Try a 10 year old MC compared to the Nautique and you will understand the value. Of course, if you can't see any difference, get the Bu or MC, and you will be happy. I think it just comes down to what you demand in quality. If you can't tell the difference, don't get a nautique. Kind of like Walmart wine compared to Kendall Jackson... or Yeagermeister compared to 21 year Scotch...

From a business stand point your ideas mentioned would greatly limit your market share and true growth. I would think that they would want people to buy a new boat every 3-4 years at the longest to increase market share and profits. How do you grow...sell more units. Its not real growth by increasing the price to raise the sales and bottom line...Its units...Bigger market share.

As far as CC being higher quality....I would agree to some point but I would say from what I have seen in the last couple years that even CC has slipped down and they have been cutting corners on materials.

There is a difference but its small....It's not the same boat company as it once was. :???:

[Hollywood]

These are inboard watersports boats, really how much money is there to be made? 500 or 2,000 units.

[Oletimeskier]

These are inboard watersports boats, really how much money is there to be made? 500 or 2,000 units.

Good question...What kind of average profit margin percentage would you think CC or MC and BU makes on a boat when they sell it to a dealer?

Then the dealer has to make his profit margin.

[oldslalomskier]

One documented mfg. Gross Profit Margin was almost 30%. Dealer margin goes on top of that yet. Material cost is less than 50% of dealer cost and labor about a half of material cost. You can do the numbers and see how the markup finally gets to the buyer.

[j2nh]

In my mind the real key is not the number of boats produced, and of course sold, but how close that number is to plant capacity and overhead. Nothing wrong with selling fewer boats provided plant capacity numbers and overhead are covered. In this economy the smaller manufacturer may have the edge, they don't need to sell 2000 units to turn a profit.

Face it, 17% unemployment, 1 in 10 mortgage holders are delinquent (at least one payment past due) and 25% of mortgage holders are upside down. There is no quick fix to those problems, we will be living with them for years. The boat companies that make it are going to be the ones that adapt to a significantly smaller market.

[Oletimeskier]

One documented mfg. Gross Profit Margin was almost 30%. Dealer margin goes on top of that yet. Material cost is less than 50% of dealer cost and labor about a half of material cost. You can do the numbers and see how the markup finally gets to the buyer.

For some manufactures I'll bet that its at least 30%-35% if not close to 40% margin on some high margin models on sales to the dealer and then the dealer adds maybe 15-20% as a guess.. :shock: WOW

No wonder these things are so expensive!

[Oletimeskier]

In my mind the real key is not the number of boats produced, and of course sold, but how close that number is to plant capacity and overhead. Nothing wrong with selling fewer boats provided plant capacity numbers and overhead are covered. In this economy the smaller manufacturer may have the edge, they don't need to sell 2000 units to turn a profit.

Face it, 17% unemployment, 1 in 10 mortgage holders are delinquent (at least one payment past due) and 25% of mortgage holders are upside down. There is no quick fix to those problems, we will be living with them for years. The boat companies that make it are going to be the ones that adapt to a significantly smaller market.

But can anyone survive for long with production / sales being down what 65-70%....These guys are only building a hand full of boats a week when the big boys used to build guessing maybe 12-15 a day...They all have huge overhead with new plants and expenses respective to the size of their business's. It's not how much you are making, it's controlling how much you are loosing right now that's the name of the game.

[j2nh]

But can anyone survive for long with production / sales being down what 65-70%....These guys are only building a hand full of boats a week when the big boys used to build guessing maybe 12-15 a day...They all have huge overhead with new plants and expenses respective to the size of their business's. It's not how much you are making, it's controlling how much you are loosing right now that's the name of the game.

Not disagreeing.
Easier in general to downsize a smaller manufacturing facility than a larger one assuming all else is equal, which it never is. :grin:

The market isn't going to change anytime soon so if they are going to survive, the manufacturers and dealers are going to have to figure out how to make these low volumes work.

[jasper]

But can anyone survive for long with production / sales being down what 65-70%

Yes, companies can survive at this level, but not all. It depends on the gross profit with the reduced revenue and how high the overhead is.

Easier in general to downsize a smaller manufacturing facility than a larger one assuming all else is equal, which it never is.

True.

The market isn't going to change anytime soon so if they are going to survive, the manufacturers and dealers are going to have to figure out how to make these low volumes work.

You got it. Thus the reasons for having to lay people off. Sadly, even good people, which is dang hard.

Cash flow is the key to survival right now for any business in times like this. Its basic: You've got to bring in more cash than you pay out. Non-cash expenses aren't as important right now as is the cash to survive, at least for my businesses. Hopefully CC, MC, BU and others can weather the storm. I'm huge on CC, but recognize the value of competition of the other guys. And, hey, they may not be as good as CC to us, but they're still good and meet the needs of others who like them.

The good news is we (in my businesses) are seeing a glimmer of improvement. Time will tell if it continues. Best to all of the boat manufacturers, and all of you during this economic mess.

jasper

[dizzyj]

The only reason CC doesn't beat the numbers of MC and Bu is the Nautiques last too long and don't need replacing. Try a 10 year old MC compared to the Nautique and you will understand the value. Of course, if you can't see any difference, get the Bu or MC, and you will be happy. I think it just comes down to what you demand in quality. If you can't tell the difference, don't get a nautique. Kind of like Walmart wine compared to Kendall Jackson... or Yeagermeister compared to 21 year Scotch...

sorry, thats bs. my '00 xstar looked and drove like it was brand new. and I have seen plenty of trashed 01-02 san's . Its all about how you take care of your toys.

[Nautiquehunter]

dizzyj
I think Nautiqueman was talking about average resale of CC and MC. If you dont take care of it even the best made products will be trashed. I will say that the way I take care of my boats even a ten year old Bayliner would still look new.

[kentsmith12]

Trust me, nothing has bottomed. You have another 10 to 20% drop in home values depending on where you live. And hardly any industry segments have bottomed. I'd stop reading the NY Times it's all bull****. We are simply in the eye of a hurricane.

Other than that everything is great! Happy Holidays!!!

Cheers!

[j2nh]

Fishing boats up, ski boats down in October 09

http://www.boating-industry.com/output.cfm?id=2384731

Market is picking up slightly, ski boats still stuck in the mud. Gonna be a long winter.

[RLS]

Few people can afford a $65,000-$85,000 dollar boat. It was possible when you could spend your over inflated equity but that money is gone and may never return. We all paid too much for our boats if you bought a new boat between 2002 and 2007. If you paid full retail after 2007 then you were a poor buyer. I paid $50,000 for a middle of the road 211. Two years before they were asking $62,000 for the same boat. If you could find a repo you would pay in the low 40s to high 30s.(new boat but dealer went out of business). CC keeps raising prices. This will lead to lower sales. If they want to sell boats the 230 should be in the Mid $60s. If they can't make money at that price they will go through a bunch of cash or go out of business. The days of selling ever $90,000 boat you can make is gone for a long time. Boats are a want not a need. CC may be a great boat but if you can not afford it a lower price boat can replace it. One of the big boat companies will lower their price and will sell more boats. I talked to a local dealer who carries both CC and Malibu and he said it is hard to sell a 230 CC when it is $20,000 more. Ya it is better but not that much better.