guys with electric valves

[johnboyy7]

for you that started out with the cable valves and changed them to electric/ solenoid valves.... how much did this increase your fill time? i was just about to pull the trigger and wakemakers says the fill time with these is brutal. im putting in 750's and he said it would be about 20 min fill time. i am using aerator pumps and im not going to change to impellers. what is your experience?

[WakeSlayer]

RE: guys with electric valves

I guess you are going to be filling and draining for a lot longer than necessary. Can I ask what your aversion is to impeller pumps? That fill time you are looking at is quite possibly while under power too, not at a standstill. You are willing to pull tanks, and buy bags, and electric valves, but just not the pumps?

[johnboyy7]

RE: guys with electric valves

yes cuz i can do all of that for 250 dollars and dont wanna spend another 4 or 5 on pumps. from what i hear the aerators work just fine and they fill pretty quickly. i was just wanting some guys on here with the set up i will have to verify with me.

[jasonwm]

RE: guys with electric valves

John-

You need to clarify as to what type of "electric valve" you're talking about, as there are a number of different types available. As we discussed on the phone today, sprinkler valves are designed to maintain high pressure (which is necessary for pop-up sprinkler heads to function), but not necessarily high volume. Because of that, they greatly inhibit the amount of water that can be pumped out to your bags. There are other valves available, but nothing that is rated for this application at a cost that is reasonable.

Your options at this point are:

- Deal with the cable actuated Flow-Rite valves currently in the boat
- Replace your factory pumps with impeller pumps
- Install Anti-Siphon Vented Loops between your factory aerator pumps and each bag/tank

The effectiveness of the third option may be limited because you have a scooping type intake from the factory, but just doing that would probably cut passive filling/draining down to a reasonable level. Obviously you're wanting to spend as little as possible on the upgrade, so option 2 is out based on cost. At that point, it just comes down to have annoyed you are with the Flow Rite valves in the boat. For free, you can deal with them and not touch anything, or for a little money you can remove them and install vented loops.

Have you already purchased your new bags?

Hopefully that helps,

Jason

[johnboyy7]

RE: guys with electric valves

yes i have. thanks for the input. it is the electric valve ..... http://cgi.ebay.com/1-Electric-Solen...item45ef446bc2. i was just wanting to get input from other people on here. i very much appreciate the info you gave me earlier and the time you spent with me. ive been PMin a guy that says he has them and they fill up 750's at stand still in 8-9 minutes with aeretor pumps. just wanting to hear if there are anymore stories of this out there.

[jasonwm]

RE: guys with electric valves

In an absolutely ideal system using 800GPH pumps, Fat Sacs will take 6 minutes and 45 seconds to fill. That's the theoretical maximum, and there's no way you'll get anywhere close to that, even before you introduce the valves. Without the valves in the system you're probably looking at around 8 minutes and 30 seconds to fill. With the valves in the system your flow will be cut in half, so you're looking at around 16 minutes. That's all "theoretical" based on the math, but our real world testing backs that up.

If you want to get an relatively accurate idea from someone else, go over to the Supra or Moomba forums and read through their threads. That will give you a real world idea of how long it's going to take.

[Shooter]

RE: guys with electric valves

Keep us informed once you do the install. Maybe Jeff can jump in (I think he had electric valves in his 2003). I understand why you want to keep your aerators; I personally think the impeller type pumps are over rated. They are expensive and can require more maintenance.

What is your reason for wanting electric valves? I wasn’t happy with my flo-wrong valves because they would pass water when the pumps were not on. I discovered there was a recall and changed them out myself for free. I’m very happy with my system now. It would be nice to not worry about the cables, but it’s not really that much of a hassle.

[johnboyy7]

RE: guys with electric valves

reason is so i dont have to open the hatch and open/close valves manually everytime we surf due to blow by on the pumps. i talked to a guy at the nautique place and he said taht can rebuild........ sometimes helps/ sometimes doesnt. said its better not to mess with them and leave them open so they dont get stuck closed.

[Red57Bird]

Re: RE: guys with electric valves

In an absolutely ideal system using 800GPH pumps, Fat Sacs will take 6 minutes and 45 seconds to fill. That's the theoretical maximum, and there's no way you'll get anywhere close to that, even before you introduce the valves. Without the valves in the system you're probably looking at around 8 minutes and 30 seconds to fill. With the valves in the system your flow will be cut in half, so you're looking at around 16 minutes. That's all "theoretical" based on the math, but our real world testing backs that up.

If you want to get an relatively accurate idea from someone else, go over to the Supra or Moomba forums and read through their threads. That will give you a real world idea of how long it's going to take.

I've exchanged several PMs with johnboy on this topic. Towards the end of summer I finally replaced the tanks in my 03 SAN with sacs and installed the electric valves on the fill side. Wakeslayer and I exchanged some message about this as well (http://planetnautique.com/index.php?...627&highlight=).

My fill times on these bags are in the 8-10 minute range, maybe slightly longer. However, it is nowhere near the 20 minutes that some are saying. I used the 1" normally closed valves from valves4projects for my project - if someone is truly experiencing 20 minute fill times, then they didn't use the correct size and/or type valves.

I know there are lots of proponents of the impeller style pumps and they do work well. However, my upgrade also works. You just need to decide the pros and cons of each and decide for yourself.

[bmh2208]

RE: Re: RE: guys with electric valves

I've done the conversion. I saw no appreciable increase in fill times. Everyone is all up in arms to try and get 3 minute fill times. To me, I don't see what the big deal is. Are you guys really ready to board 3 mins after dropping the boat in the water. for me, It takes at least 10-15 minutes from when we drop in to idle over where we start, get the rope out, get your jacket one, then squirm about getting into the 60 degree water. Yeah, I know. I'm a puss. But I'm from Texas, and if the water is colder than 70, then I complain.

[WakeSlayer]

RE: Re: RE: guys with electric valves

You all know where I stand on ballast systems, and what I recommend. I can totally appreciate the guys that take different routes and modify the existing aerator systems rather than completely replace them. To each his own, and hats off to the guys who are diligent and creative enough to keep these systems up and running. My biggest point is that Correct Craft even went away from this style in 2007. The impeller type systems are incredibly reliable, allow you to lose any check valves, shut off valves, bilge pumps, crappy hoses and hard tanks that take up storage space. You are effectively upgrading your boat to the 2007 and newer style, which is of no detriment to re-sale, or functionality. The pumps can be had for as low as $185 each, and require zero maintenance with the obvious exception of winterizing. I am unclear on someone who has a $25k boat that costs $150 in gas for a weekend of fun sweating paying for a couple pumps, but that is just me. BMH has a good point too. The race to the instant fill is silly. I don't know if mine is faster filling or draining or not. I am surprised and impressed at the times you aerator guys get. It amazes me. The stock system in my boat sucked from day one, and I have never been happier since I replaced with the system I did.
I will always recommend cutting out these systems and using ballast puppies and bags. If that doesn't work for some, great, use the system like RedBird and BMH have set up, they seem to work great.
I have a complete bill of materials for a system like I have installed if anyone is ever interested.

[jasonwm]

RE: Re: RE: guys with electric valves

I agree for the most part, with the caveat that it is VERY easy to build a system that is just as reliable, just as easy to install, just as simple from a component standpoint, more reliable, cheaper and faster using aerator pumps. You would basically be installing the system that comes in Malibu's from the factory.

When you're talking about retrofitting there are lots of variables to take into consideration, and we almost always recommend that our customers use impeller pumps in that situation because they are more universally applicable.

If you're talking about a from scratch install, it will depend on the scenario, but 90% of the time aerator pumps are easier, cheaper, faster and more reliable, which is what most of our customers are looking for.

$0.02

[WakeSlayer]

RE: Re: RE: guys with electric valves

Less expensive I agree with, easier and more reliable I am not really able to see how that would be. I have popped one fuse in three seasons. And faster, well, I think we should take a few people next year and do timed fills and drains with a variety of systems.

[Shooter]

RE: Re: RE: guys with electric valves

The only real benefit impellers have over aerators is they will not flow unless pumping. Aerator takes less energy, they will pump as fast or even faster with back pressure (on the go) and they can run dry without issues. I looked into doing a change out when I had issues with my flow-wrong valves and decided it was not worth the money. Both systems work well and I feel aerators get a bad wrap partly because of CC's issues with the flow-rite valves.