Considering an Air Natique 211 vs Malibu Sunscape LSV.....op

**Cumberlandrider** · 10-11-2004, 01:45 PM

You will be happier with the SV211. Especially coming from a cobalt, the finest quality boat you can buy, a Nautique is the finest quality Ski/Wakeboard boat you can buy. The Malibu may be 10K less now, but there will be an even bigger difference in price when its resale time. I used to own an 03 Super Air, and now have an 04 226 both Team Ed. , I've riden behind a 211 Team, the wake is very nice it shapes up really nice for wakeboarding, and definitely has the best slalom wake of any V-drive I've seen. Hope this helps.

**G-man** · 10-11-2004, 01:47 PM

cob206

I have not been in either of the two boats you are asking about. The reputation for a quality built boat goes to Nautique hands down. Just like Cobalt has the reputation for a quality I/O under 28 feet. I recently was considering another MC or a Nautique. I work at a boat dealership that doesn't carry inboards and I'll tell you the number one complaint about boats is the amount of time a boat is in service for a given problem. Find out from owners in your area about the dealers service department and what kind of problems have they had on their new boats. How far away is boat service should you need it? I had a choice of 5 minutes from work or 1 hour from work. It was an easy decision. I have had 1 minor problem, the t-fitting for the Faria water temp sender had a water leak from being tightened to much at the factory causing a hairline crack. Only leaked when engine was running making it hard to find with engine off. Repair was .85 at home depot. I lost no time on the lake. It wasn't taken to dealer for repair. When you take delivery of your new boat do the water demo, turn on every switch, set up all the canvas that can save a trip back to the dealership for something minor like a burn out bulb. Your Cobalt dealer should done this with you as a matter of practice. Good luck lets us know your decision.

**SGY** · 10-11-2004, 02:40 PM

Hey Cob206, I was waiting to hear from you on the MBO site regarding your impressions of the 211. How did it drive compared to the comparable Bu?

I have always owned Nautiques and don't plan on owning anything else in the near future. While I like and respect the Malibu line of boats, I don't think the materials used are quite up to par. Some of the components used by CC are higher quality and thus cost more. For example, PCM makes the best motor, in my opinion. PCM has incorporated the Fuel Control Cell that has virtually eliminated vapor lock. No other manufactures use this because of PCM's patent. CC aslo has standard the PCM gear reduction transmission on all of their boats. This costs more than the direct drive one to one tranny used by Malibu.

These are just a few examples why CC boats are better, in my mind. Others include the use of AME resin throughout the boat. CC also uses sound dampening materials throughout the boat that Malibu and MC don't use. I also understand that CC's windshields are thicker and thus cost more that Malibu windshields. Malibu also uses hollow stringers as opposed to CC. Not sure why Malibu does this but I'm sure they have a reason and explanation as to why their boat building method is better. CC's stringers are solid. I understand that CC is the only manufacturer that recommends storing its boats by the lifting rings. Don't try this for an extented indefinite period of time on a MC or Bu.

When I was shopping for my latest CC, I took a hard look at the Response. While I agree that the Response skis as well as my 206, I don't think it tracks as well nor is it as quiet. My 206 seems to handle the chop a bit better as well. The Response was louder and seems a little bit less refined. I would compare the 206 to the Response the same way I would compare a high end Mercedes or BMW to a Corvette. Both dang nice--but...different.

I also looked at boats that were 3-5 years old. Most Bu's I looked at did not seem to wear as well. Carpet was coming loose in places and the vinyl didn't wear as well as the used CC boats I looked at. Certainly this could be a reflection of the owners of the various boats, but I had no way to control that and the theme was consistent.

My advice: Go drive them both, back to back if you can. Look at the little things on both boats. Do you like the seating position and throttle position. Look at the guage function(s) and see which you like the best. CC has accurate fuel guages on the Limited and Team Edition that will give you consumption and hours remaining information. The Limited and Team Editions will also provide you with digital information on oil pressure, voltage, and coolant temp. (Not sure what info the Bu gauges provide.) Look also at the digital accuracy of the CC gauges compared to the Bu gauges. Look in the bilge and in concealed areas lto see if the carpeting is completed. Take a look under seat cushions and compare the finish work. Look at the vinyl stitching and see if Bu's stitching looks stressed or stretched compared to CC's. I'll be interested in your impressions.

If its close, I would choose the boat that has the best dealer attached. Both boats, and Mastercrafts, for that matter, are dang nice boats and you can't go really wrong with any of them. Another thing, up until recently, the battle hymm of Bu owners was that "sure, CC's are nice but why would you buy a CC when you can buy just as nice a boat for alot less." Nowadays, Bu's pricing is closing the gap--if you compare apples to apples. Also consider what your reaction will be if you are a Bu owner and see a 211 on the lake. Will you yearn for the 211 or be happy with your choice. In asking that question of myself, I knew what the answer would be--I would secretly covet the CC.

With the SV211, you are getting a boat that many believe equals the SAN 210 in wake size and quality but also has a slalom wake which could qualify it for AWSA sanction. This, to me is an amazing feat. I think I read somewhere that on the 211 CC has taken the TSC2 hull and tweaked it to perform for wakeboarding. The TSC2 hull is an excellent platform which performs well for wakeboarding at slower speeds. I know people that have the 196 with a tower and say that the slow speed wake is quite acceptable for their kids. While not huge, the wake is nicely defined. With the 211, the wake is now pro sized.

Good luck and enjoy the process. Please keep up posted.

P.S. You're not going to make a mistake with either the CC or Bu.

**skinautique** · 10-11-2004, 02:51 PM

I would agree with most of the points made here.
Check out your dealership (see if you can get the phone numbers of a couple of their customers and call them to see how they like the boat and the dealership). CC is the only manufacturer with a 5 year bumper to bumper warranty (3 year on the powertrain). I have been through the CC factory a few times and to see how passionate the employees are about their jobs is incredible. From the inside out, the boat is meticulously crafted (haven't been in other factories so no comments there). Drive and ski/board behind both of the boats too. There is alot to be learned from a test drive. Many people say "I don't want to test drive the boat because I don't know what to look for or how to compare it". When you drive the different boats, you will easily be able to feel differences. It was mentioned that the CC's are strong enough to be hung by their lifting rings. This is 100% true. The boat is hung atleast 3 times at the factory before it leaves and it can hang for as long as you want it to without it deforming in any way, shape or form. I have asked the other manufacturers about hanging their boats and they told me "we wouldn't recommend it" (Not sure that this was one of your big concerns but I felt like commenting on it anyways!)
I personally love the spaciousness and versatility of the 211. I think the CC engineers really did their homework with this one. The storage is endless even with a ballast system installed. Also, you can buy the boat without ballast and have the tanks installed later if you so choose (anything installed at the factory can easily be installed at a dealership at a later date).

**cob206** · 10-11-2004, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by SGY

Hey Cob206, I was waiting to hear from you on the MBO site regarding your impressions of the 211. How did it drive compared to the comparable Bu? .

Hey SGY,

I appreciated you chiming in on the SV211 on the Malibu site. It helped affirm that I was looking at the right boats. The one I drove did not have all the bells and whistles. I actually drove it the day after I went to the Boat Show while the dealers Team Edition was still on stage. I'm going to drive the Team Edition this week or next. Even still, the SV211 that I drove I loved. Coming from a Cobalt I am used to high quality fit and finish. The 211 did not dissapoint. As for handling, I can't say anything bad. The boat was very responsive, smooth, and powerful. Out of all the boats I've driven, it by far had the best Skiing wake. This applied to 25mph as well as I have young ones who are just starting out as well as the older kids. With the Hydrogate disengaged at 18-20mph, the Wakeboard wake was probably close to the Cobalt trimmed up, but was very even on both sides. I'm looking forward to seeing the ballast in action.

The interior is great. I love the walkthrough transom as I got very used to it on my Cobalt. The Malibu does have additional seating, but I think the value of the walkthrough outweighs the extra seats.

Originally posted by SGY

Also consider what your reaction will be if you are a Bu owner and see a 211 on the lake. Will you yearn for the 211 or be happy with your choice. In asking that question of myself, I knew what the answer would be--I would secretly covet the CC.

You nailed a big issue for me. Would I have been happy buying a Chapparel and then seeing a Cobalt on my lake? No. I don't mind spending the money for the best, but I also do not use the boat maybe 30 hours a season and the cost is hard to justify. This past season the weather was horrible and I put 14 hours on the Cobalt. What a joke. I'm trying to be practical, but when the best is available, why not go for it if you can.

**cob206** · 10-11-2004, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by george

cob206

I have not been in either of the two boats you are asking about. The reputation for a quality built boat goes to Nautique hands down. Just like Cobalt has the reputation for a quality I/O under 28 feet. I recently was considering another MC or a Nautique. I work at a boat dealership that doesn't carry inboards and I'll tell you the number one complaint about boats is the amount of time a boat is in service for a given problem. Find out from owners in your area about the dealers service department and what kind of problems have they had on their new boats. How far away is boat service should you need it? I had a choice of 5 minutes from work or 1 hour from work. It was an easy decision. I have had 1 minor problem, the t-fitting for the Faria water temp sender had a water leak from being tightened to much at the factory causing a hairline crack. Only leaked when engine was running making it hard to find with engine off. Repair was .85 at home depot. I lost no time on the lake. It wasn't taken to dealer for repair. When you take delivery of your new boat do the water demo, turn on every switch, set up all the canvas that can save a trip back to the dealership for something minor like a burn out bulb. Your Cobalt dealer should done this with you as a matter of practice. Good luck lets us know your decision.

The dealership issue is another reason why I may choose the CC. Both dealers are inconvenient. My boat stays in Northern Vermont all summer so if it breaks, I have to drag it back (one Marina up there, will not allow them to work on my boat). My current dealer (Cobalt/Malibu) I like a great deal as far as the owner, sales, and stated intentions concerning service. Problem is, they haven't delivered in service up to expectations. In fact they have botched just about every attempt they've made to right things that are wrong. They say its uniqie to me but I doubt it. The owner has assurred me that he will act as my service liason for any future interactions so as to avoid problems. They are about 35 minutes from where I work. The CC dealer is much smaller and about 1hr 20 mins from work. The CC dealer had their service guy take me out to test drive the SV 211. The guy was great. Very knowledgable and has been with the dealer for ten years. I quizzed him on a number of service related issues (things that piss me off) and his answers passed with flying colors. I walked away with a great feeling about their ability to take care of me. I also have an endorsement from a co-owner who bought a new CC from them in 98 and has been bringing it there ever since.

**cob206** · 10-11-2004, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by skinautique

It was mentioned that the CC's are strong enough to be hung by their lifting rings. This is 100% true. The boat is hung atleast 3 times at the factory before it leaves and it can hang for as long as you want it to without it deforming in any way, shape or form. I have asked the other manufacturers about hanging their boats and they told me "we wouldn't recommend it" (Not sure that this was one of your big concerns but I felt like commenting on it anyways!)
I personally love the spaciousness and versatility of the 211. I think the CC engineers really did their homework with this one. The storage is endless even with a ballast system installed. Also, you can buy the boat without ballast and have the tanks installed later if you so choose (anything installed at the factory can easily be installed at a dealership at a later date).

Yeah, I like the lifting rings and the implied strength of construction. I agree with the versatility. Thanks for the input. It is much appreciated.

**SGY** · 10-11-2004, 10:48 PM

I look at it this way: if you don't have the all time that you would like to spend on the lake, the time you do spend is all the more important. So, get the boat you love with the dealer that will take great care of you--whether it be a CC or a Bu. I'll say this, however, going from a Cobalt to a CC or vice versa is a natural progression. I always said that if I were going to get an I/O, it would be a Cobalt. I believe that you will not be sorry if you get a SV211. Like your Cobalt, it's a great boat.

Good Luck and keep us posted with further impressions/decisions or should you have any other questions.

**clubmyke** · 10-12-2004, 01:43 AM

putting price aside ( not that much differnce when i was bought my 05).
really, really consider the dealer.
they can make or break the experience. anyone is there for the sale, it is after the sale that makes the differece.

good luck,

mike

**TwinTip** · 10-12-2004, 08:02 AM

Besides the dealer (which is a very important factor) and all of the comments regarding the quality of a CC, I also think that the console, instruments, gages and controls are way much nicer on the CC than any other boat. I certainly agree with the quality of the CC boats and the extra materials that go into them to make them quieter, stronger and more reliable.

You are looking into a Team package. Check out the guages (at night and when they turn red, they are just awesome), the location of the remote for the radio and the keypad. Other boat manufacturers have many switches throughout the console, CC has them all concentrated in one location. Check out the layout of the gauges as opposed to one guage serving to monitor fuel, temperature, oil pressure and battery voltage. I am always checking my guages to make sure everything is normal. Check out your sitting position, how you clear the windshield or windshield frame as you drive at different speeds, your body position and where your right arm and hand rest in relation to the throttle.

Once you are comfortable with your day to day use of the boat (wake, sound, comfortness), think about reliability and resale value. If you are having the boat build, check the color selection on the outside and inside of the boat.

Good luck!!!

**cob206** · 10-12-2004, 08:19 AM

Guys,

Thanks for the feedback so far. Rather than simply banging the CC drum, you are providing great insight into reasons for owning a CC.

I have two questions that came to mind this morning:

1) How's the reliability/accuracy of the ballast tank gauges? I ask because on one of the Malibu's that I tested, they were god awful. Very innacurate and rather inconvenient. They were represented individually by scrolling through a digital display on the dash.

2) Has anyone ever outfitted their boat with Canvas that would cover the boat with the tower down? I'm assuming the factory cover is designed for tower up only. I ask because I presently have a boatlift with a canopy. I will likely have to drop the tower to at least rasie the lift and like to leave my boat covered when not at my lake house. The weather up there can get nasty at times and the canopy can't protect the boat if there are high winds and rain. The cover would only be for this purpose.

**SGY** · 10-12-2004, 09:59 AM

I have no idea regarding your first question as my boat doesn't have the ballast tanks. REgarding your second question, I'm sure you could have a cover manufactured that would cover the boat with the cover retracted or folded down. You could also cover the boat and then fold the tower if your lift will accommodate this. Finally, there is an outfit that makes a cover that fits under your lift canopy that covers and uncovers by the push of a button. It is very swanky and runs about $3,000. THis would solve your problem because the cover does not actually touch the boat. I'll see if I can find the web page and shoot it your way.

Good luck.

**SGY** · 10-12-2004, 10:13 AM

Cob206, check this out:

www.boatdockstuff.com

**skinautique** · 10-12-2004, 11:31 AM

The guages are more reliable on the CC than the other boats that I have been around. It is also a very simplistic setup and it fills and empties really fast. I couldn't imagine the cost to make a cover that would go over your whole tower. I would say that you would be better off to put the cover on over the bow and then fold the tower down and put the rest of the cover on. This will also help to hold the cover on even better because it has some weight from the tower itself to hold it down.

Considering an Air Natique 211 vs Malibu Sunscape LSV.....op

Considering an Air Natique 211 vs Malibu Sunscape LSV.....op

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