Bring back the 196

[SNMike]

IMHO, the 196 is superior to ALL other dedicated slalom boats in wake and handling performance, except the 200. Both from CC as it turns out.

If I had the money, I'd own a 200, and still have my 07. Just because I could. The 196 is the pinnacle of what a slalom boat should look like. Enter the new 200. It's a looker. It has more room, few mph slower, etc. etc.

Bill, offer the 196 for us po' folk. We win. The 200 for those who have the jack, and need a new PB. They win. All in all, everybody win's. Mainly CC.

As for "BEST"............well, all the ski companies like HO, Radar "improve" their product every year. High def 1080p is the best that's available to consumers at this time. That will change..........sooner than you think. As for CC building the best that can ever be achieved.............that's still yet to come I would argue.

Regards to all!!

Mike

[ClemsonDave]

Sorry to keep this going, but no you don't "Got it."
You're still missing the point and people have pointed out the potential compromises. And no one said they expect a perfect ski boat from CC. And almost everyone says the 200 is better than the 196. They also say they think the 200 is not as good as CC could have done if there was not an OB requirement.

I guess the only way you will ever be convinced(if true) is to hear it from a CC engineer. But, I'd be willing to guess that will never happen. But seriously, you can't even entertain the idea that the 200 could have been better in a CB only model?

What I have been waiting for is 'how can it be better'? What is is lacking, specifically? The only thing I have heard is the top speed and high RPM's. How many people need to go faster than 41mph? I'd bet if you asked most 196 owners what the top speed is, they wouldn't have a clue.

They set out to produce the best 3 event boat out there and they succeeded. It would be nice if it could achieve 50mph at 4500rpm, but there have to be sacrifices somewhere (I think). In order to make the smallest wake possible and have the least spray possible, you have to distribute the weight across a large surface area. Unfortunately, that creates drag. If you have an idea how to do it otherwise, I'd love to hear it. So would CC, MC and Bu. Maybe that technology will be there someday, but I don't think it exists yet. So, would you prefer a compromise on the size of the wake or a few mph on the top end?

Ya'll keep comparing the OB to CB. Help me understand. I don't buy the structural support argument since a boat will never pull the G's in a turn that a car does. The driver's view on my boat is far superior to anything I have ever seen and it's better than a 196. What specifically would they gain by moving it forward? The wake and spray is determined primarily by the bottom of the hull and the weight of the boat. What difference does it make how the top front of the boat is configured or where the driver sits? The 200 is only a few inches bigger and a couple hundred pounds heavier.

Maybe we are arguing the same thing. I concede that any boat can always be better. However, I fully believe that CC produced the best possible boat with today's technology. The wake and lack of spray on this boat is friggin amazing. It is worlds better than anything out there. I guess I'm just happy they did as good of a job as they did.

Could it have been better as a CB only? Maybe, but who knows?? If they kept losing sales to MC and Bu, it wouldn't matter. So, they knocked out an OB boat that blows everything away (for 3 event) and sold a ton. Call me crazy, but I say well done.

[swc5150]

For those who want a 196 or the old 210 go and get one. There are a bunch for sale and that probably wont change. While the rest of the people progress with the industry you can always buy the oldies but goodies.

There are probably hundreds of reasons why nautique wont bring them back. They need to do what is right for the company and I for one trust them over anyone else. From what I've seen they must be doing things right because my local dealer has completely sold out of new nautiques.

So go and find a used 196 or 210 and be happy. After all its a nautique, it should last you forever.

I DID go buy a late model 196, because there were no new '09LE's left, which is the gist of this thread. It's not like we're trying to resurrect a '67 Corvette, production just ended a year ago, so it's hardly an outdated unit. The 200 is a great boat, but it's $20k more than a 196. If a group wants a prior year 210 re-issued, go start a thread. Mark is simply asking how many of us would buy a new 196 if it was available, and I could personally name about 7. Maybe we throw 20-30 orders on Bill's desk, and he pulls out the molds? I don't want to argue over which boat is better; I want them to offer both. Like Mike says, for us "po folk"! That's all we're trying to accomplish.

[MARK-S]

196

CD,
I love the 200. I skied/drove the 200, LXI and MC all 2010 models and by far had the best experience behind the 200.
If I could have sold my boat and laid down the cash, I would own one today.
Our lake is 2300 feet long and 300 feet wide at the widest point. We put an observer (if we have one, ballast if we dont) in the pax seat and have a club dock at the end of the lake. The skier skies off the dock and back to the dock. We put about 300 hours on it and sell it. Our club boat system is set up like many accross the nation and we now need to look at our financial picture for the next upgrade. The bottom line is that there are no 35k ski boats out there anymore. We wont go Moomba or Gecko but what do clubs like ours do?
There are no 08/09 196s out there to buy. If someone knows where you can find one, let me know.
We do own a 2008 and the good news is that it is now holding its value better then ever. The bad news is, when we sell, we have to come up with much more then our club is taking in today. Skiing got more expensive then it alraedy is.

[ClemsonDave]

I'll agree with you there. We have a small club and are looking at buying a club boat soon. It's doubtful we can afford a 200 for a few years. So, we'll probably hunt for a 196 and I'll stay promo and get the 200's.

[bkhallpass]

Clemson Dave,

I could be wrong. However, I believe that one of the ways that CC was able to get a flat wake on the 196 was to get weight forward. Engine, driver, etc.. I also believe that one of the ways they accomplished this and still left enough driver, seating room, etc. was the short bow. Again I could be wrong.

Because this "cab forward" configuration produced the best wake of its time, I think there may be some that believe doing so would create an even better wake on the new 200. You have been in the boat, and believe it is not necessary. You point out the bow already stays down better than the 196.

I have not been in a 200. Haven't seen one live. I don't know if CC could have made an even better ski boat in a closed bow specific model. However, like you I have my doubts that a closed bow specific version would be much better, if at all. There are so many specialized contours on the hull of the 200, that I just don't think shortening the bow a few inches could add that much too it. Perhaps I'm wrong about that too, but I definitely see your point.

As far as being a leader, CC is a business like any other. Sales and production are down, and they had to lay off a lot of people. A majority of the market wants open bows, and it's simply less expensive to make a boat that accommodates both closed and open bow. That's good business. If that makes CC a follower, then so be it. I'd rather see them stay in business, and maintain jobs then go out of business based on a purist principle.
It's hard for me to cast them as a follower if they are making the boat with the best slalom wake in the market.

BKH

[swc5150]

Mark,
You didn't replace your 196? That was your's that Shane bought, wasn't it (maybe I'm wrong)?

[MARK-S]

196

swc,
I sold my 08 196 to Shane back in Sep. Our club finely sold our 06 Response in March. We then bought a 2008 196 to replace the response. We were very lucky to get the boat because soon after the 196 market went dry.
I no longer own a boat and will be a club boater for a few years. I would love to still be on the Promo team but the well dried up and we couldnt afford the upgrade.

[JCross]

This is my first thread, I usually like to just read gossip and not participate but I can't stand to be quiet any longer.

I also have a new 200. I previously had a '02 196. The 200 is leaps and bounds much better than the 196. Lots more storage, better wake, tracks better. Those of you that are complaining about were the speedo is who cares. Are you free skiing in open water or are you going through a course? If you are in a course then why are you looking at speedo, that is what zero off is for.

I guess Clemson Dave I are just crazy then for getting rid of our 196's and going with the 200!!!!!!! I have had the new boat at the club and everybody and I mean everybody goes nuts about the wake, tracking and styling of the new 200. Those of you who have not skied or driven the 200 have no business putting it down.... One more thing, this boat does not ues anymore gas than my 196 did.

[tski97]

Having never driven or skied these boats I can't comment on the difference. I think those who have not seen the 200 will be surpised at how short the bow is. When at the factory they had many 200 being built and I thought the bow looked really small. I would not think the bow size is all that different between the two. Maybe just the 6 inches longer. I am sure this model will be improved over the years like the 196 has been. To me it is logical to build them the way they do however I think that price will catch up to cc some day.

[SNMike]

Those of you who have not skied or driven the 200 have no business putting it down.... One more thing, this boat does not ues anymore gas than my 196 did.

I'm pretty sure no one in their heart is putting the 200 down mi amigo. I've seen it in person. Schaaaaawing!!!!

I'm willing to bet the core disappointment that many have is the price. Could be wrong, it's happened before. Just sayin'.

Regards!!!

Mike

[swc5150]

This is my first thread, I usually like to just read gossip and not participate but I can't stand to be quiet any longer.

I also have a new 200. I previously had a '02 196. The 200 is leaps and bounds much better than the 196. Lots more storage, better wake, tracks better. Those of you that are complaining about were the speedo is who cares. Are you free skiing in open water or are you going through a course? If you are in a course then why are you looking at speedo, that is what zero off is for.

I guess Clemson Dave I are just crazy then for getting rid of our 196's and going with the 200!!!!!!! I have had the new boat at the club and everybody and I mean everybody goes nuts about the wake, tracking and styling of the new 200. Those of you who have not skied or driven the 200 have no business putting it down.... One more thing, this boat does not ues anymore gas than my 196 did.

Maybe this thread should be re-named, "For those of us who don't have or want to spend $60k on a new Nautique, please bring back the 196"? Or start a 196 verus 200 thread, as we're getting way off topic here. Or start a group buy thread for a 2012 196 and send the order to CC;-)

[ClemsonDave]

Maybe we need a group hug! ;-)

My boat will not be anywhere near $60k....

I think it would be awesome to have the demand in our sport to warrant both boats. Bring it on!

I just got back from the lake and two of our skiers just got PBs. Pretty awesome since it is still early in the season. Wish I could get one! Close but no cigar.

[chris196]

Yes, please don't mistake what I said as meaning I wouldn't like a 200. I'd love to have one. As a matter of fact I'll trade a nice condition 1998 SN for one right now.

[ClemsonDave]

Yes, please don't mistake what I said as meaning I wouldn't like a 200. I'd love to have one. As a matter of fact I'll trade a nice condition 1998 SN for one right now.

You got it! That will make a nice down payment.

I fully understand the price issue. I quit my job and just started my own business.