Parity in the warranty game and exceeded in the servic game...

[gride300]

i think he has been waiting about a month. just buy an aftermarket warranty. i posted the company on a thread here not long ago. i forget the name, but they cover everything from steering cables to fuel pumps.

[tdc_worm]

Wow, where to start. You are making so many generalizations and assumptions in this post. First, while all manufacturers use fiberglass for hulls, there are a lot of design and manufacturing processes that go into making them. Two manufacturers using the exact same gel coat on a boat may apply it using different methods, leading to different gel coat quality and performance. While the hulls may not rot, you can have gel coat problems, stress cracks, and even hull failures (we have had at least one transom failure on a Malibu with a wedge on our lake).

true, and i will try to reply w/o using opinion. regarding the 5 year warranty (3 year gel coat warranty if you read the small print) my 2006 CC 220 has blisters in the gel coat. while it still has over a year left on the "warranty," i was informed by me dealer that the 3 year gelcoat warranty has expired. both my 2006 220 and my 2007 236 have spider cracks in the gel coat.

would be interesting to know what year malibu had the hull failure and the circumstances under which the wedge caused the problem.

I don't believe your comments on engines is correct either. While they all use the GM Vortec engine block as a base, they do not come from GM already marinized. That is what PCM, Indmar, Mercruiser, etc. do. And I believe there is a definite difference in engine marinizers. PCM is far and away the cream of the crop - personally, I wouldn't own a boat with an Indmar engine.

dont want to burst your bubble, but if you think any marinizer builds their engines, your crazy. GM even says who they supply their marinized small blocks to here:

http://www.gm.com/vehicles/innovatio...ed/listing.htm

it makes zero sense to recreate the wheel, especially when GM can do it for a much lower price because they 1) manufacture the very engines we are talking about and 2) produce them in mass quantities. if you want some more info in what goes into marinizing, take a read through this post:

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/diy...ation-650.html

Regarding vinyl, seats, carpets, etc. there is a big difference in what some of these manufacturers install in their boats. I have an 03 SAN that has been well taken care of and the interior and seats look great. Most people don't believe me when I tell them it is a 7 year old boat. However, if CC didn't use high quality materials and manufacturing processes, my interior wouldn't look as good as it does. I'd rather have a boat with top notch materials and craftsmanship, over a boat that uses inferior materials and comes with a top-notch warranty.

my 2006 220 has 500 hours on it and the upholstery looks brand new...because it is. every flat surface on the interior and sun deck has been replaced under warranty (not including driver's seat). I have two other friends that 2006 220's that have "complimentary" new interiors for the same issues. my 236's reversible bench will be replaced under warranty because its vinyl is tearing at the seams also. quality materials and superior manufacturing processes cannot overcome design oversights (which are common in first year model boats as both of these are)

I could continue, but I think I've made my point. To generalize all boats as basically all the same parts and pieces, but put together by different companies, just doesn't make sense and doesn't reflect reality.

in the spirit of education for us all, i would love for you to continue, because i dont think you have made your point. detail for us the components that are exclusive to and/or manufactured by CC verses the majority of warranty issue claims across all manufacturers. even though i am a CC guy, i dont have ownership goggles. by the time any of these boats have some sort of major issue (i.e. structural or mechanical), they will be well beyond their 5 year warranties. so in the meantime, our warranties are covering vinyl, the occasional hinge or light, spider cracks in the gel coat, etc. anything dealer installed has a one year warranty. gel coat has a 3 year warranty. everything else has a 5 year warranty. the trailer is a whole different story that would take too long to get in to...

[horkn]

Actually, kia, part of Hyundai, makes a great product now.

These are easily better than GM and many other brands that people buy, and aimed at lexus and toyota.

If PCM marinized a Hyundai Tau v8, I would actually consider a newer a PCM/indmar motor that was made after they stopped making ford 5.8 liter based motors.

That said, CC's warranty is full of loopholes to allow CC not to cover parts that should be warrantied. Any manufacturer that can step up and offer a comprehensive warranty is going to sell boats. Like was said before, the boat companies only drop in assemblies into their boats for drive train. After that, they make a composite hull, with upholstery and some electronics. If the gelcoat is made well, there shouldn't be issues with the gelcoat, and the hull. The motor, tranny and electronics are made by outside suppliers and those vendors have warranties.

I like CC's and own one, but I would not shun another brand simply because it is not a CC.

I say the more competition there is, the better every brand will be.

[maxpower220]

Actually, kia, part of Hyundai, makes a great product now.

These are easily better than GM and many other brands that people buy, and aimed at lexus and toyota.

Where do you get any data that would support that statement????

As far as warranties, I think that it is criminal that the boat has a warranty for the first owner and then subsequent owners must pay to have that continue. Warranty the boat, not the owner. Of course, if the boat is used commercially, then I understand. That is a different issue.

[causewayskiier]

I agree, 2nd owner shouldn't have to buy the rest of the original warranty. It doesn't work that way with car warranties. As I mentioned there should not be more than one warranty anyway. When you carry your Ford vehicle in your don't have to deal with whoever made the fuel injector or any other part.

[swc5150]

bill yeargin called my buddy today who has an 09 he bought new to ask him how it was treating him. he told him he was waiting on some warranty parts, and after the phone call he got another call saying they were being shipped. talk about customer service.

I think he owes Actman a call, if he's dialing customers!

[horkn]

Where do you get any data that would support that statement????

As far as warranties, I think that it is criminal that the boat has a warranty for the first owner and then subsequent owners must pay to have that continue. Warranty the boat, not the owner. Of course, if the boat is used commercially, then I understand. That is a different issue.

It's pretty well known to anyone with an open mind that hyundai makes VERY good cars. For instance, when the only thing to nit pick about a brand new design like the genesis sedan is that the damping still needs a little refining, that is a company on the right track. GM makes a couple good vehicles, but has some real stinkers in the line up. Even the good ones are marred by things like cheap looking plastic dashes and switch gear.

I fully agree about your warranty statement. It's either a warranty or not.

[maxpower220]

It's pretty well known to anyone with an open mind that hyundai makes VERY good cars.

I am not trying to bash Hyundai. Toyota makes some good vehicles also, but that did not translate into a good marine engine (Epic). I thought/hoped that there was a new marine engine that is better than the GM plants in everything now.

[horkn]

I am not trying to bash Hyundai. Toyota makes some good vehicles also, but that did not translate into a good marine engine (Epic). I thought/hoped that there was a new marine engine that is better than the GM plants in everything now.

The epic was just not quite thought out well enough. Had they used the 4.7 v8, I think they would not have had as many issues. They used the lexus v8 that was smaller(4.0 IIRC) and a little too complicated for boat use, especially when the boat maker was a new one. Yota also marinized their own motors, something nobody else does. It's easy to source an entire engine/ tranny combo from PCM, Indmar or Mercury compared to marinizing your own motor.

I too hope for a non GM based marine motor again.

[gride300]

what is the reasoning behind gm motors being used so much? do they get them alot cheaper than other manufacturers or have they just adopted them as what they like to use?

[DanielC]

GM engines are used almost exclusively, because there is simply no other option.
Correct Craft, and PCM did some experimenting with the Triton Ford V-8 engines, but they proved not to have the durability in a marine application. Mastercraft and Indmar also were experimenting with using using the Cadillac Northstar engine, and you do not see that being done, either.

A boat requires an engine that will live with a load, chugging along at 1500 or 2000 rpm.

[tdc_worm]

A boat requires an engine that will live with a load, chugging along at 1500 or 2000 rpm.

please elaborate your point...

[shag]

I would say that a boat could be compared to a truck or SUV always towing a boat.

[DanielC]

Even your truck towing your boat has a transmission, these days probably automatic, that if you load the engine too much, it just down shifts.
A boat has only one gear, or speed.
Factor in the use that a lot of people are doing now, overloading the boat for surfing, and you really end up putting a lot of stress on the engine, with a heavy load at slow speeds.

Most modern engines are designed to run at a higher RPM than a boat engine typically operates. Modern engines are designed to reduce the internal engine losses, and to be run with lighter oils, to reduce internal friction. Another compromise, in an effort to make engines more compact, is reduced area in the bearings, both main and rod. If the engine is run at a relatively high RPM, this is not a problem. In a boat, you need the larger bearing area of the "old school" V8 engines, to withstand the pressures of a engine lugging along, with a heavy load.

The only "old school" engines with larger bearings, that are still being manufactured today are being made by GM.

[tdc_worm]

i cant make a comment on the bearing area stuff, my question had to do with "lugging along" at 1500-2000 rpms. with a car, your tires have a positive bite on the pavement...there is no slip. cars are expected to be able to run over 75mph. in order to accomplish this, several gears are needed.

in a boat, the propeller slips, it does not have a positive bite on the water. that, combined with the aggressive pitches that we run in our boats allows our engines to get into their intended operating ranges much faster. most of our boats will only run 43-44mph.

when i am surfing we are at 3200 rpms, wakeboarding is usually 3500-3700 depending on speed and ballast. at 1500-2000 rpms i am sure i would be just off plane throwing annoying rollers down the lake...