2008 SANTE 2010: What is my factory ballast distribution?

[Andrew14]

Hi all - just bought a 2008 SANTE 210 (absolutely love it - my first nautique, 2nd boat) and was wondering if someone could tell me what the factory ballast distribution breakout is (lbs per tank) for my boat. I've searched the threads on here and googled it, but to no avail. Also, regarding the Fly-High integrated bow sac and the new Fly-High arrow sac, can they be used together or is it one or the other? If it is one or the other, anyone know which one is best for a 2008+ SANTE 210? My boat came with 2 Fly-High (400lb each) V-drive sacs and 1 triangle shaped Fly-High bow sac (going to sell the bow sac as I would like to hide all ballast bags), so I'm trying to determine what I should run hidden in the bow that will piggy back into the factory system once I plumb in the 2 400 lb v-drive sacs that I already have.

Thank you in advance for the help.

Andrew
Charlotte, NC

[migs]

very roughly about 300 each.

[210GA]

The arrow is ok, from what I've heard but the W711 is the better of those. It's the intergrated bow sac that goes under the seat around the nose a good ways. Mike Siepel, the ballast Gooru at Fly High will tell you the same.

I run the W711 in my '08 210 as well.

[Andrew14]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Few quick follow-up questions:

1. I'm thinking of running factory rear tanks and plumping in the two W701 400lb v-drive sacs that I already have on top. Would I gain anything by pulling out the factory tanks and running two W707's (750lbs each) sacs in the rear instead? If the factory tanks are around 300lbs each and I go with the 400lbs sacs I already have, looks like I'd only be short about 50lbs on either side by not going with the 750lbs. If this is the case, how much would 100lbs in the rear matter?

2. With either of these set-ups in the rear, would the W711 integrated bow sac (says 650lbs) and the factory belly tank be enough mid-front ballast to keep it from porpoising (as well as making a great wake) or do I need to add something else?

3. I have the OEM team prop (the numbers are on it, I just haven't looked close enough to see what they are). If I run additional ballast as I've described above, do I need to upgrade to a more aggressive ACME prop? I have the base 343HP Exec Engine (and GPS Zero Off PerfectPass).

Thanks for the help, guys.

[JWAT]

I have a 2008 210 and here are a few answers/pointers...

1. Yes, you can use both the arrow sac and the integrated bow sac together. What you would do is run the overflow from the stock front tank to the arrow sac. Then run the overflow from the arrow sac up to the integrated bow sac. Then you would run the integrated bow sacs overflow out the side of the boat. This is exactly what I did, except I have the locker sac in place of the arrow sac. I would recommend running both the integrated bow sac and the arrow sac or locker sac in the ski locker becuase if you don't, you won't be able to put as much weight in the rear (won't be able to get on plane).

2. Here is how I have my boat weighted...400 lb. sacs plumbed on top of each rear tank. Locker sac plumbed into stock center tank. Locker sac then overflows into an integrated bow sac. I also have roughly 300-400 lbs of lead spread around the cabin of the boat under the seats. I have found this to be a great setup. Some say you gain quite a bit by removing the rear tanks and putting in 750s, but I don't see it. Plus, with the 400s on top, you can always put it back to stock if you want and your guages will still work.

3. If you put this much weight in your boat, I would recommend the Acme 1235. If you have the team prop, it will probably do ok, but the 1235 is what most people run with a bunch of weight in their 210 or 230. Also, you will need to replace your Zero Off antenna with the new one and have the upgraded software installed if it hasn't already. Antenna is fairly expensive, but zero off should do the software upgrade for free. To get the best wake on this boat, you need it weighted tail heavy so that it just gets on plane...but doing this causes it to porpous if you do not have the upgraded antenna and software.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

[Andrew14]

JWAT - thank you for the thorough follow-up. Wow, you are running a lot of weight.

1. Do you have the ZR6 engine or are you running the 343?

2. I'm a beginner rider (heelside w2w, inconsistent toeside w2w, learning a backroll). I've been told that too much ballast early on can hinder your progression. At what point should people start adding weight to this boat (and any boat I guess for that matter) as it corresponds to your skill level? When did you start adding past the factory ballast? Did you add all of that at once, or did you work up to it?

3. I'm glad you told me about the gauges still working vs. not working if you pull the factory tanks...I really want to keep my gauges functional. When I add, I'm going to keep the tanks in the rear after hearing this.

4. Have you noticed any difference in 1-2-3 on the Shift Gate? I've only riden behind my new boat twice...first time was 6 weeks ago when I bought it, second time was yesterday. Both times rode full factory ballast and two people in the boat. First time I rode with the Gate in position 3...yesterday had it in 1 all day unintentially. I noticed all day that the wake just didn't seem to have as much pop as the first time I took it out...thought maybe I was just getting use to the wake or something. But then when I put it on the trailer last night, noticed the gate was in 1. Could that have made any difference?

Thanks again for the help....sick red 210 by the way.

Andrew

[migs]

your hydrogate should be pulled back(towards the rear of the boat) when riding. THis adds the lip on the top of the wake to make it steeper. YES there is a considerable difference.
you can also use this to help your boat get on plane faster when heavily sacked. Keep it in the front most position when pulling up your rider. Once your boat is on plane and at set speed, pull it back towards the rear.

[JWAT]

JWAT - thank you for the thorough follow-up. Wow, you are running a lot of weight.

1. Do you have the ZR6 engine or are you running the 343?

2. I'm a beginner rider (heelside w2w, inconsistent toeside w2w, learning a backroll). I've been told that too much ballast early on can hinder your progression. At what point should people start adding weight to this boat (and any boat I guess for that matter) as it corresponds to your skill level? When did you start adding past the factory ballast? Did you add all of that at once, or did you work up to it?

3. I'm glad you told me about the gauges still working vs. not working if you pull the factory tanks...I really want to keep my gauges functional. When I add, I'm going to keep the tanks in the rear after hearing this.

4. Have you noticed any difference in 1-2-3 on the Shift Gate? I've only riden behind my new boat twice...first time was 6 weeks ago when I bought it, second time was yesterday. Both times rode full factory ballast and two people in the boat. First time I rode with the Gate in position 3...yesterday had it in 1 all day unintentially. I noticed all day that the wake just didn't seem to have as much pop as the first time I took it out...thought maybe I was just getting use to the wake or something. But then when I put it on the trailer last night, noticed the gate was in 1. Could that have made any difference?

Thanks again for the help....sick red 210 by the way.

Andrew

1. I have the same engine you have...343

2. This is all up to you. Starting off with stock ballast will definitely help you progress faster in the long run. If you can learn to get good pop off of a stock wake, you will really be able to get some pop off a sacked out wake. Honestly, as soon as I learned what extra weight did to a wake, I started weighting my boats down a lot. I had decent fundamentals down once I did this, but I'm sure it hindered my progression a little bit. Fact is, I'm 30 yrs old and don't plan on riding on the pro tour, so I sack my boat out and go as big as I can.

3. Yes, your gauges will still work until the water starts flowing into the 400 lb sacks. Its still nice though because you can see when the stock tanks only get full and then when everything is empty as well.

4. You want the hydrogate lever pushed all the way forward (not sure what # off hand) when you are getting on plane and then pull it all the way back once you are on plane. This definitely makes a difference. My wake is a little washy if I leave it pushed forward the whole time, but cleans up real nice when it gets pulled back. Plus it makes the wake a tad steeper.

[xrichard]

JWAT-have you had any issues w/the 1235 eroding the fiberglass just behind the prop? When I bought my boat, both Acme and Nautique told me to use the 1579 instead (the 1579 is the "team prop" and is the same cup & pitch as the 1235 but with a smaller diameter). My understanding is that the 1235 will fit the 210, but Acme and CC told me there would be problems down the road.

Andrew14-double check the number on your prop. My boat, a TE, was delivered with a 645 and all the TE's in my dealer's inventory also had 645 props. I don't know if that was a dealer option or if it was just the case that some TE's went out the door with the standard prop. At my request, CC swapped mine to a 1579 after I checked the prop when I got the boat home.

I recently put an arrow sack in to replace a tube sac...I don't have the under-seat sack. FWIW, the arrow sac holds a bit more weight, but I don't think it's a huge deal and it's a lot more money than the tube sack. For total weight, it looks to me that the under-seat sack is the way to go, but ( 1 ) you lose a lot of storage, and ( 2 ) 650lbs looks to be an exaggerated claim to me as the space isn't going to get that sack fill to capacity. I decided to go with a bag in the locker and some lead--but I don't run as much weight as others (...about 1800-2000lbs total depending on how full I fill the sacks).

Porpoising depends on how much weight I run in the rear, but overall it is only occasional and it settles fairly quickly (e.g. after 3-4 oscillations)--it is much less of an issue since I upgraded the Zero Off antenna and firmware. Before that, I often had to use the hydrogate to get it to stop.

[JWAT]

No, I have not had any problems with the 1235. I heard the same thing and talked to my dealer (N3 Boatworks) and they use the 1235 prop on all of their weighted down 210's and have never had a problem as well. I even had N3 call Nautique to verify that me using the 1235 would not void the warranty and Nautique said it would not be an issue at all.

[Chad52]

Andrew,

I'm running an 08 210 with the 343 engine as well. I run the 1579 prop which I got factory on my boat.

I pretty much concur with everything that the others have said here. I'm running my old wedge sacks plumbed into the hardshell tanks in the rear of my boat, so it might be a little less that what others are running but I didn't think it was enough to justify buing new sacks for the rear. I run about 300 lbs of lead in the nose, and that's all for me. I occasionally, when really loaded with people, have to move 1 person into the bow to plane out, but that usually always does the trick.

One thing about my boat, and others can chime in if they have the same issue, is that you really have to be careful about coming down off plane. The nose rides really low to the water. If I have 10 people on board (even with no one in the bow) and come off plane, I really have to come down slowly so as not to take on water over the nose. It's not a problem, but be careful if you let an inexperienced person drive with a full crew.

[Andrew14]

Migs, JWAT, Xrichard - thank you all for the great info here...really appreciate it. From now on, I will leave the hydrogate all the way back (position 3) unless getting up a rider. It definitely makes a difference in how much pop you can get off the top of the wake.

Xrichard - Thanks for the heads up on the prop. I've been told that my boat will either have the 645 (13.25 x 16 VL) or the 1579 (13.50 x 14.25 VL) on it. I washed it Saturday and I could have sworn I saw a 14 something on it, but I'll look when I get home tonight and make sure it has the 1579.

For the under the seat front sac (W711 Integrated Bow Sac), I agree, it doesn't look like there is enough room for it to fill completely - so, what does it start doing? Does it fill as much as it can and then just start overflowing out the side (leaving part of the sac bundled up and unfilled)? Is there any risk of damaging the thin fiberglass cross pieces that fit under the front seats and would be over the sac by putting the Integrated Bow Sac in there and filling it as far as it will go?

Any suggestions on where to get a 1235 at the best price when the time comes?

Thanks guys. Great site you have here...much more helpful than WW when all you care about is Nautiques.

[JWAT]

The integrated bow sac definitely does not fill all the way up under the front seats. It will just fill up as much as possible and then overflow out the side of the boat. There is no worry of damaging the fiberglass under the seats as long as you have it vented correctly. Not sure on the 1235. I was lucky enough to find a used one. I know Delta Props gives a PlanetNautique discount...

[210GA]

Andrew,

Don't worry about the bigger wake and hindering your learning, it is a **** of a lot easier to ride. You don't have to work as hard to get straight up pop; just slow your roll charging in and you'll be fine.

[xrichard]

Not to get side-tracked, but wrt a big wake hindering your learning, I think it depends on the rider and how aggressive they are.

For many, what 210GA said is true. But, a more weight also means you have to ride a bit faster to keep the wake clean. Size and speed can be intimidating and cause you to get a bit defensive...which translates into rolling off edge and absorbing a bit, especially toe-side....which are bad habits alone and often lead to other problems.

Besides the "defensive" issue discouraging good habits, I think a smaller wake (e.g. stock ballast) goes a long way toward developing good form. IMHO, aggressive beginners often focus on speed to get pop/distance when they learn with a large wake (...the "turn and burn" method). A moderate wake will give plenty of kick with a strong body position and a progressive edge...so it encourages beginners develop those habits and shows them how much pop they can get using line tension.

(I don't meant this to turn into a "how to teach beginners" thread...just giving a different perspective from 210GA...and it really depends on the rider as to how much weight/speed is appropriate)