2012 Rumors?

[BroncoSki]

Great point bronco: I'm one of the sidelined 200 buyers. I just think of when I paid in the low $30's for a brand new '06 196, now it's almost double in 5 years. My salary didn't keep up with that inflation.

Its flipping crazy what has happened over there in terms of price. The new building is nice but they could still be building in the old shop and have kept prices down. I understand the R&D cost for the 200 and getting the molds built but, like you said, double the price in five years?

I wouldn't say MC is guilty of flooding the market. They build NO spec boats. They have to borrow the money to build each boat. A 10% deposit is required before production and the boat must be paid in full before it leaves the factory. Therefore, I don't see them flooding the market.

Malibu's "new" 3-event boat is in name only. I've driven the boat - floats around just like last year's LXI. The wakes at slower speeds have been improved slightly but at the expense of handling. MC's new boat will be out in 2013. Somewhat shorter and narrower and options will be modular in nature.

And, if the 10% price increase by CC holds, that will take a stripped SN200 over $50k (promo price). MC's will be $7-8k less and more economical to own.

Have you checked MC's pricing for 2012? They are going up 8% plus they have the recent 30 million dollar lawsuit to start figuring in to their bottom line. Good friend sells at Southeast MC and the bottom line price for an '11 197 decked out with flake was 46,9(no tower) and the price for the same boat in '12 is 59k(no tower). This is straight from the owner's son Gary Meloon. It seems that MC has pulled in line with CC's pricing strategy. At least you get a new hull design with CC. The 197 is going on about 10yrs now with no overhaul.

[jdarwin]

I have the pricing for the 2012 197 WTT boat and it's $7k less than a comparably equipped 2012 SN200 promo. As for the $30m lawsuit, their deductible has been met (I'm certain) and re-insurance will appeal. I seriously doubt the verdict will stand but we'll see. As for the new vs old, the SN200 is a great boat ( I own one) but is cost-prohibitive to operate in its present form. Just because a hull is 10 years old doesn't make it obsolete or undesirable. Personally, if I wasn't required to have a current year boat on my site for tournaments, I would buy back my 1997 SN. I never equate overhaul with improvement.

[BroncoSki]

97 seemed to be the favorite year for the SN. The hull being ten years old just means that it is bought and paid for and the price of the boats should be considerably less vs a new boat with sunk costs to factor in(R&D, molds, set-up, testing, etc.). When you say comparably equiped are you talking about stripped(key, no stereo, etc) or Loaded "team editions", if the term fits for MC?

I hope you are right about the lawsuit. MC got hosed royally.

[jdarwin]

97 seemed to be the favorite year for the SN. The hull being ten years old just means that it is bought and paid for and the price of the boats should be considerably less vs a new boat with sunk costs to factor in(R&D, molds, set-up, testing, etc.). When you say comparably equiped are you talking about stripped(key, no stereo, etc) or Loaded "team editions", if the term fits for MC?

I hope you are right about the lawsuit. MC got hosed royally.

I was referring to basic (stripped) boats comparably equipped. Understand, I'm not defending MC's products or CC's pricing. In my situation, it's a matter of economics. I sell my boat every year. It is used in a club-boat environment and used to pull 4 record tournaments at my site each year. Therefore, cost of ownership rules the day. In cost of ownership, I factor 3 things: cost to purchase, cost to operate and resell. When you factor those items together, the 197 makes more sense than the SN200 (in my particular situation). That’s not to say that the 197 is “better” than the SN200. For me, they are both tractors that travel back and forth in 2,000 foot intervals.

[BroncoSki]

This may be a silly question but why do you own a 200 if the 197 makes more sense for your situation?

I dont see how the operating costs for the 200 are higher than the 197. Ive only owned one MC and that was an '81 stars and stripes(fine boat!) Granted, Ive only had my 200 for 1 month but in that month I dont see anything different in costs of operation from my '07 206 or even my '03 216. The only place Im hearing the fuel costs are higher is from Gary Meloon at MC. Can you enlighten me more on the cost of operation being greater. Like I said, Ive only ran 2+ tanks of gas so far but I dont see any difference.

[erkoehler]

Its flipping crazy what has happened over there in terms of price. The new building is nice but they could still be building in the old shop and have kept prices down. I understand the R&D cost for the 200 and getting the molds built but, like you said, double the price in five years?



Have you checked MC's pricing for 2012? They are going up 8% plus they have the recent 30 million dollar lawsuit to start figuring in to their bottom line. Good friend sells at Southeast MC and the bottom line price for an '11 197 decked out with flake was 46,9(no tower) and the price for the same boat in '12 is 59k(no tower). This is straight from the owner's son Gary Meloon. It seems that MC has pulled in line with CC's pricing strategy. At least you get a new hull design with CC. The 197 is going on about 10yrs now with no overhaul.

49k retail for a 2011 ProStar 197? There is no way that boat was "loaded" with options. Sorry, some one isn't telling the truth. I know what they cost.

[BroncoSki]

call justin at southeast mastercaft in orlando and ask him what he quoted me on a '11 197 w/o a tower fully loaded with metal flake. Tell him I own a red bronco and an infiniti g35 coupe and that I bought all my slalom equipment from him at performance. He will know who it is. Dont ever question my integrity. I'll back up anything I say and will be the nicest guy in the world until you question my integrity. Now until you call him and ask then I dont care what you have to say

I hate to be harsh but you called me out and there it is. A loyal CC guy that Gary Meloon was trying desperately to get my CC of the lake. The price was 49,9 and he was competing with Jeff (a good friend over at Nautiques of Orlando). If you dont know who Gary Meloon is and what his family meant to CC and the hatred therein, then I guess I can consider the source and call it a day. Thanks for the call out and I hope you follow up. LOL

[erkoehler]

call justin at southeast mastercaft in orlando and ask him what he quoted me on a '11 197 w/o a tower fully loaded with metal flake. Tell him I own a red bronco and an infiniti g35 coupe and that I bought all my slalom equipment from him at performance. He will know who it is. Dont ever question my integrity son. I'll back up anything I say and will be the nicest guy in the world until you question my integrity. Now until you call him and ask then I dont care what you have to say

I'm sitting here looking at dealer cost on a ProStar 197 for 2011. Maybe we have different definitions of fully loaded? A 197 w/ no options except a Ilmor 5.7L upgrade has an MSRP of $56,170 without a trailer. Your talking a MSRP of 70k+ on a nicely equipped one w/ a 5.7L. That is not a boat that should sell at 49k.

Nobody is questioning your integrity, just questioning the pricing.

[BroncoSki]

He also bumped the price on the '12 to 59k. Is that false too?

[erkoehler]

He also bumped the price on the '12 to 59k. Is that false too?

Probably not, cause if he was selling them at 49k he didn't make any money! Maybe he mis-quoted you, or had a promo deal/money set aside for your deal. Who knows.....just don't want people to think a 197 is 50k in 2011 and a SN200 is 60k similarly equipped.

[BroncoSki]

That was the price to try and sway me from Jeff and Nautiques of Orlando. Ive bought and sold 5 boats with Jeff and there is a reason he is the #1 sales rep for Nautique. It was funny b/c when I called Joe Mama at Nautiques of Orlando he knew exactly the price they were giving me to get me out of my CC. The fact is that MC has titled only ~12 new boats in Orlando this entire year. Ive seen the registration numbers.
I think you have to understand the situation Gary Meloon is in to understand the rock bottom price I was getting. That was no mis quote and that was a boat I could have ordered in my color scheme. I knew it was a deal but I live in Orlando and Im a CC guy. They were built for over a half a century 1 mile down the road from me. MC makes a fine boat but the 197 is no 200 and never will be.

[erkoehler]

The 197 is no comparison to the 200.

We could barely sell the one 197 that we would order in 2-3 years. After switching to correct craft, we have already sold 3 new 200's and sold 2 used 200's this season.

[jdarwin]

This may be a silly question but why do you own a 200 if the 197 makes more sense for your situation?

I dont see how the operating costs for the 200 are higher than the 197. Ive only owned one MC and that was an '81 stars and stripes(fine boat!) Granted, Ive only had my 200 for 1 month but in that month I dont see anything different in costs of operation from my '07 206 or even my '03 216. The only place Im hearing the fuel costs are higher is from Gary Meloon at MC. Can you enlighten me more on the cost of operation being greater. Like I said, Ive only ran 2+ tanks of gas so far but I dont see any difference.

I have 265 hours on my SN200. In comparison to my 196 last season, gas consumption is about 26.15% higher. My fuel consumption per set for the past 5 years has averaged 1.3 gallons per set. This year, it's 1.64 gallons per set. My fuel costs are $986 higher this year than last at the end of July. Couple that with the cost to aquire ($7k more) and the cost of ownership is much higher. And, when you try to resell the boat, a $42k boat will be much easier to sell than a $50k boat. As with housing, you have income threasholds that will eliminate a certain portion of the market as the price increases. MasterCraft and CC both make fine products that perform well. If the 200 was comparably priced and the cost of operating was similar, I would not be considering a switch.

[swc5150]

I believe bronco's pricing for a 2011, as I priced out a 2011 200 CB. With trailer and heater as options, the price was $45k. This has changed substantially for 2012, so I guess I should've pulled the trigger! That price was with standard cruise as well. $49k does not surprise me one bit for a 197.

[aarond0083]

You slalom guys are lucky. I'd love to buy the best boat out there for my preferred water sport for 60K.