Sales Domination

[Edwin]

Interesting perspective thutch. I agree to a point, but there's a downside of that view. If the dealers can't sell enough boats to keep the numbers in the black, they'll cease to exist. My local dealer is in year 3 or 4 of selling CC. Prior to them, CC would move from dealer to dealer every 2-3 years.

I understand paying a premium for a best in class product, but the premium requested in years past has been too much. I've kept records of the deals my dealer was willing to make over the years - it appears they've chosen to adapt (become more price competitive) and thus, continue to exist. I believe he mentioned selling 30+ boats this year, both CC and Skier's Choice boats.

[JJ]

Edwin and SGY,
My 206 is still for sale. Here is a chance to get a 206 Limited and save thousands from the cost of a new boat. You are more than welcome to come over and test drive and ski the boat. I am very motivated to sell this boat.

This boat does not have a single mark on it. Just to give you any idea on how the boat is cared for I added a pic of it hanging in my garage to my photo gallery. This shows how I can completely clean and wax the hull. Email me and we can discuss price.

[AbunDiga909]

First of all, JJ, i love the way you keep your boat...looks awesome! esp when its clean... anyway...i agree with everybody about how CC's are pretty much the top of the line and most expensive, but i also have to say that MC and Malibu are pulling ahead with their tower designs and tower accessories. They seem more appealing to the 20 yr old wakeboarder who wants what looks coolest oppose to how it handles. That's where i think CC is falling behind...styling. however, in the recent years, they are pulling ahead, however so is MC and malibu, but CC is closing the gap. I have to be frank, even though the new tower on the 216 and 206 looks real stylish, the coolest one i've seen is on the new X-Star by MC with the fork bow. The tower had lights, speakers, and everything. very very stylish. i think CC can beat that, but they need to put in some money and effort. Cancling the deal with NVert isn't helping. So i partially think styling is selling MC's and Malibu's more for the wakeboard market, but for the family market and other pros who know their boats, CC has those customers. Our local dealer is on a huge lake (Candlewood Lake) and he owns the lake with CC's. CC left and right. CC must keep the price in mind when selling their boats however...
~Austin E.

[skinautique]

CC backed out of the deal with NVert because they couldn't provide them with enough units. The 206 and 216 did not get a new tower. The only tower that is new (kind of) is the 210. The 226 has changed a little bit too. It is a combo of the spider tower and the 210 tower

[AbunDiga909]

i agree, but if you look real real closely (cuz i have nothing better to do with my time...) you will notice that starting in 03, the windshield is slanted more only on the new 206 and 216. in addition, the tower for those boats are slightly slanted, i just think it makes it look a lot better.'
~Austin E.

[SGY]

206 test

CC was good enough to let me ski behind a 206 on Monday while in Orlando on business. My goal was to compare the 206 to my 99 SNOB.

First, the fit and finish of the boat is outstanding. It also handles excellent. I'm continually amazed how much better the newer boats are than even a 4 year old boat like my 99 SNOB. Comparing exterior, interior and driving, the 206 is way better--as expected.

As far as skiing, I first skied with the full 75 foot line. At both 28 mph and 30 mph it has a pretty good hump. In comparing this to my 99 SNOB, I would say that the 206 is a little cleaner and easier to cross. Behind the 206 there is a hump, behind my SNOB, there are two large wakes.

At 15 off at 28mph, the wake improves drastically. I would say that it is about the same, maybe a little bigger than my SNOB--but slightly softer. As you go up in speed to 30 and then 32 the wake improves to the point that at 32 its about the same as my SNOB if not a little better. I did not go faster because I'm still struggling at running the course at 30mph.

At 22 off I have to say that there is a pretty good bump as you exit the wake going from skier left to right. This was at 30 mph. I don't know what the wake at 22 off at 30 mph is like behind my boat since I still struggling at 15 off. I hope to ski today behind my boat and I'll put it at 22 off to compare.

In speaking with others "in the know", I understand that the 206 really starts to get better as you increase the speed. 32 mph is good but the wakes really shrink and soften at 34mph. According to one CC representative, the higher speed lifts the boat out of the water. Sounds similar to Edwin's impressions of the 216. The 196 has the advantage because its smaller and weighs less.

My hesitation is the bump at 22 off. Is this the kind of bump I can expect behind any ski boat? In other words, is there something wrong with the 206 that will be fixed in the next couple of years--kind of like the Infinity boat? I don't want to buy the 206 now and see that CC comes out with something drastically better in a year or so. (I always hesitate to buy the first year run of a new model.) If I buy this boat now, I can guarantee that my wife will shoot me if I try to buy a new boat in a year or two.

Any thoughts?

[AbunDiga909]

SGY...do you wakeboard??? or any other sport that needs a large wake? Cuz if not, then you may wanna consider the 196...but then again the 206 has the nice bow and can hold 3 more people. I skyski and slalom, but not as much. So we are considering teh 216. What do you know about that wake? I here it's supposed to be good. not like 196 good, but nice for a "conversion" boat as i like to call it. I can do the mini course at about 29-30 mph at 15 off on our 82 Ski Nautique. I now go faster cuz the wake started to get smaller at that speed too. How do you think it would compare or how i would do on a 216...is it adequate??? We would be getting the 210 if i didn't slalom. Back to the point....I hear great things about the 206...it cant be that bad...
~Austin E.

[SGY]

206/216

I wakeboard perhaps once a year. And, while my kids do wakeboard, we are still a slalom family and want a slalom boat. I agree the 196 is the best--that's why I have the 99 SNOB. I'm really not into a crossover boat. Crossover means to me that it does two things ok, but not great. I'd rather have a boat that does one thing great and tell my kids that we can buy a wakeboard boat when they can help pay for it.

With all that said, I am hoping that the 206 will be the boat for me--but don't want to compromise too much with the wake quallity. I didn't mean to give the impression that I didn't like the boat. I loved it--no question. The issue is whether it is a net gain over what I have today to justify the expense at this time. If I didn't already have the SNOB, I would have bought the 206 already.

I skied behind the 216 and it was fine--not as good as the 206 but certainly adequate as a crossover boat. (See Edwin's review above which I agree with.) I didn't spend too much time behind the 216 as there was a large line of people waiting, but if I had to speculate I would say that the 206 wakes are a little better simply because of the boat size. It takes more speed to get the 216 to unhook at the rear than the 206. But again, I'm just speculating. By the way, my son loved the wake for boarding.

Good luck.

Take care,

[882001]

hey abundagga. i will agree that the new mc and malibus look pretty cool now, while the tribal stuff is in style, but what about in 5 years when it is not in style anymore. its gonna look like crap and outdated. just like the stars and stripes look now. older nautiques have a classic style. older mc and malibus just look old. im sure people said the same thing about the eurof3 when it came out with the miami vice looking writing on the side. yeah its a real looker now. JUNK!!

[AbunDiga909]

I agree that CC will sell more boats in the long run.... However, i also think that there are some old boats that do look classic becided CC, however, our old 82 ski Nautique looks very classic. SGY...do you think that the 216 is better than our 82 Ski Nautique? Was the slalom wake really bad or was it bad compared to the 206. cuz i would imagine that since its based on the twc2 hull that it would have to have at least a decent wake for slaloming...I'm just trying to confirm that that boat is the right one for us. i'm not a hardcore slalomer, but i'd like to have a nice wake, otherwise we might as well go with the 210. and vise versa. if it doesn't have such a nice wakeboard wake, i dunno what we should get...but fromwhat you say, it has a nice wake.
p.s. has anyone heard anything on the new ballast tanks for the 04 216? i hear they are supposed to have more storage? anyone have any news on them? thanks again.
~Austin E.

[SGY]

216 vs. 82 SN

I had a 1988 2001. Great boat but no comparison in any way shape or form to the 216. The 216 has a much better wake at all line lengths than the 2001 model. And, the 216 wakes were not bad at all--even compared to the 206.

If you want to slalom and wakeboard, the 216 is a great choice.

[AbunDiga909]

Thanks SGY...That really helps....cuz those are just the answers i'm looking for! We found an 03 for a great deal.... but its about 18 hrs away...we would meet the dealer half way however...except...i like the new staro controls in the help. the new kicker upgrade..like tweeters and sub..but that is not as important. also. it has nvert wakeboard racks. since they drill the holes to put them in..and we would wanna take them out...there would be holes in the tower and that would not look that attractive...but those are minor things...however...i hear thta the 04 has a new ballast system that will allow for more storage. it was very surprisign to us taht we couldn't fit in a 68" ski in the back flatly. we had to lie it on its side and it would be diagonal...even then it wsa tight and i think that after a while the fin esp would start to rip the rug...and it also eliminates the amount of good storage for anything else...will the new ballast system elimate this problem???
~Austin E.

[skinautique]

Edwin,
I saw your post on MBO about the 04 lxi and the issues on it. Does it make you wonder what else they may have "slapped" together behind the scenes? I also don't see why they would have different quality requirements between tn and ca? You would think that all of them should have to pass the same test out of each plant. Just curious what your thoughts are there.

[Edwin]

SN - absolutely, makes me wonder. If they slap the finishing touches together w/o much care, who knows what lies beneath the surface. As best I'm aware, the CA and TN plants have the same build process. Some on MBO have commented that that hasn't always been the case...can't confirm nor deny.

That said, taking a quick read at the mechanical forum here shows that CC isn't immune to issues either. I've read about LCS helm contols that weren't hooked up to anything, keyless ignitions that just shut off for no reason, recalls for fins, coil wires, some impellers have not been taking a prime, bow lifting rings were an issue on selected boats, 2002 ski nautique's for screws coming too close to the gas tank because they were too long, etc. I've also witnessed my dealer working on the electric hatch release that doesn't work, keyless ignition systems that don't function as promised. Don't have any idea how many issues were caused due to careless assembly, but I'd wager good $$$ that Jeff's 03 SAN helm controls hadn't been hooked up since day one.

I've readily admitted here that the fit and finish of the CC is superior to my Malibu, but ALL manufacturers are going to have some issues. Maybe I was looking at an early 04 model? No excuse in my book, but could be the case.

On the positive side, the 04 Response LXi will accept 2 full size slalom skis in the trunk. Oh, and the in floor ski locker will actually accept skis as well. When we demo'd the 206, you couldn't fit a full size ski in the in-floor locker. The observers seat is 33" wide, easily handling two passengers.

[M3Fan]

Just thought I'd mention, JJ, if that boat dropped, I'd immediately fall upon a sword. Not that it would, but it just hanging there looks so precarious! I don't know if I could do that without water underneath. Cool pic.