Anyone checked out the Malibu Surfgate

[wakemeup3460]

Here is the surf gate in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TqY7...e_gdata_player

[grnking]

A buddy of mine demoed a vlx (21ft). A whole lot I liked about it and the non-listing was worth anything I gave up on quality of interior. After selling my boat I am leaning toward one of these myself..... Btw only had stock and 400 bags on each side

[High altitude]

So I built my first prototype this week and tried it out. I'm too pressed for time this week but I will post pictures next week for sure. With that said, I thought I would spend 5 minutes here to describe the results . Basically, my initial thought was to build the vertical "trim" tab (esentially what the Surfgate is) on the starboard side to build up a wake on the port side. I know my boat can make a decent starboard side wave but we have never had much luck on the port side even with signifigant weight. I used a 22"x8" board at about a 40 degree ofset from the hull angle. I also used a 1000 pounds of ballast directly in the center rear of the boat. I figure if I can get this side to work, the other should be a piece of cake.
The bottom line is it was a partial victory. The wave was small but for the first time it was actually defined so that was a good thing. I was able to go ropeless (riding a Inland Surfer Blue Lake, 150lb rider) but it had very little push and would be unacceptable IMHO. It appears that my first iteration had a few things lacking. First of all, the 8" is a bit "low" in the water and I think too much water went over the top thus the delay in convergence was not fully realized. I plan on making a 10" x 22" tab for the next go around. Also, I am not sure about weighting. I would prefer to run all weight in the center and then pop out a trim tab when needed. This might not work. I am going to try a 60/40 (surf side - 60) weighting scheme next time and see if this helps. Lastly, I plan to use weighting in the front that I did not use at all. I have a 300 lb sack in the bow storage area that is fully plumbed to a Johnson pump so that will be easy to adjust. I think the correct weighting of the boat is absolutely essential to getting this thing right so I plan on running a whole bunch of iterations with some moveable weighting.
For a first attempt, I was reasonably satisfied. I think there is some serious potential here but it will take some engineering. Assuming I can get this to work I then will test a "tucked-in" version (the same as a Surfgate in the closed position) to see how it effects the ski wake at 26-34 MPH and the effects when going around the turn islans. If that works as well... the next step will be to plumb in the hydraulics and mount the switches. Unlike the Malibu Surfgate these vertical "trim" tabs will not be controlled by speed. I will have two switches controlling either side. I will also install a master switch as a secondary safety so they never get switched open unintentionally. The goal is to have a true crossover where I can run a set in the course and then ten minutes later be ready to surf either goofy or regular without a massive reconfiguration of sacs and seating.
The next two weeks are going to be dicey because of some major work commitments. Thus, I might not get a chance to continue with my testing. It's a little sketchy after that because I live at 7000' and we are losing our season fast. Assuming we don't have a hard freeze, I will be out in my drysuit experimenting and then do the plumbing over the winter. I really hope to update the forum with some positive test results (and the pictures and videos) so others can continue to develop this concept. -Marc

[scottb7]

while i for one think it is awesome you are working on! Thanks.

[jjsaustin]

Marc,

First off, Great Work!

From what I have read, I think you are on the right track going with a 10" height as 8" is too short.

The other variable is the angle of the gate. If the angle is too big, the wave may be delayed too long. This would likely push the /convergence or pocket be too far back and not create enough push. Can you comment on how far back the pocket was? I would think this may be somewhat dependent on speed as well.

What kind of boat are you trying this on? Does it have a stepped hull or is it flat like the Malibu's?

Great work! Please post some pics. I would like to give this a try and being in Austin I might have a few more weeks to experiment .

-Jim

[Nautiques_NZ]

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=488652531146720
we started playing with this a few months ago, it isn fitted to a nautique but works very well, the boat is a 20ft direct drive with only minimal ballast and a few crew, Have also tried it on a 211 with success.

[High altitude]

Well I had exactly one hour to work on the "gate" this morning. I hat a 12" x 20" piece of wood that connected directly on to the existing piece of wood I was using. The extra height of the board was key! It really built up the wave a lot more. I also use some different weight combinations to get a feel for that as well. Unfortunately, I did not get to surf behind it because I was by myself so I can't speak to it's rideability but it looked much better. You could actually see the convergence and I took some pics. I will post all that on Sunday when I have a bit more time.
The wave was different in that it was higher but was also at more of an angle to the boat. Frankly, it looked more like a small ocean wave than a longer boat wave. The only way to know if that is good is to ride it which I will probably not get to do for a little while. The bottom line is it has convinced me to go further. I think I will begin to order some parts. By adding a hydraulic piston (and a control switch) I should be able to vary the angle and try to optimize the setup to some degree. It should make the "gate" swapouts quicker as well so I can try a different shapes.
The one variable I did not play with was speed. I need a full day to add that into the equation. Current speed is 8.5 on the GPS PP. That seems slow compared to most boats but it is also the optimal speed when using fat sacs on one side. (and that is a very rideable wave -- similiar to a 210 with stock ballast and 450 extra on the surf side)
One issue that I have with my 99 Ski Nautique is the cutout on the back. Water is clearly going thru the cutout and not hitting the gate. I'm not sure it's critical but it's something I need to think about. I have a few questions pending on the Malibu forum (they have been doing quite a bit of work on this) so maybe I will get some answers to this problem. The key is not to build something that effects the slalom wakes very much (or at all). That might be a tall order but I think it can be done. Thanks again for any advice/inputs, etc. -Marc

[jjsaustin]

That's great news and excellent progress!!

I can't wait to see the pics of the gate. If you can post the pics soon, I may be able to make something on Saturday (it is suppose to rain all day) and try it on Sunday.

I'm still wondering if this is going to work with my stepped hull....

-Jim

[High altitude]

Here is a picture of the "gate" I am using. Of course this is strictly for demo purposes but it gets the job done. Not a huge fan of drilling thru the swim platform but in the end it seemed like a small price to pay for some up-front knowledge.


Basically, the setup is very simple. Two 2x4 connected with 4 3/8 inch thru bolts to the swim platform (2 each per 2x4). On the end of each 2x4 is a stainless steel hinge contected to the 1/2 inch thick piece of wood. This was a 8 x 22 piece pictured but I changed that to a 12 x 20 for the second test. For my boat, the swim platform is slightly underwater when loaded so I put the board at a level that was actually higher than the swim platform. I might be able to cut this down a bit in the future.

Here is a picture of the wave. Note: this is not the greatest photo as I also needed to drive the boat so I couldn't get it from a better angle which would show the height. It is also on the worst side of the boat. The prop rotates right on a 99 so the goofy side is usually bigger. IMHO it was easily surfable.

I hope this helps. Usually I am very detailed oriented with stuff like this but I am slammed with work so I apologize if the info is coming out in bits and pieces. -Marc

[TRIP]

Cool project, good luck!

[swankster]

Demoed the 2013 23 LSV with power wedge and surf gate, today. I've got to say the wake was great and very easy to adjust for both surfing and wakeboarding but the interior was not up to par with my Nautique. Not having the boat listing over and no extra sac in the seat were big pluses for me , but I find it difficult to give them a 2010 230 SANTE with 270 hours and almost $20k for a 2013 23 LSV.

[High altitude]

Nice, how did the actual wave compare for surfing? I have heard the same thing on the fit and finish of Mailbu's from a few people. That's going to be a tough decision.

[swankster]

The wave had as much push as my 230 with the center and one side factory full, a 750 in the locker, another 750 on the seat and 300lbs of lead in the nose. Both with just three people in the boat. The LSV had all factory full (front, center and both sides) and two integrated 400's in each locker. We put a 400 sac up front on the LSV and I could surf 15' from the stern. With a push of the button we could switch side. My 230 is a 10 to 15 minute process to switch. My hope is that CC will make something this easy to switch side. I don't think I can leave the CC quality.

[High altitude]

Wow, the wave sounds great for a relatively "light" boat. I know the G23/25 is a game changing hull but I hope CC understands there is a need for this type of technology in their older SAN bodystyle and maybe even more importantly...the Sport 200 (mostly because that's what I plan to buy in the future ) This ability to keep the boat evenly weighted and able to switch in seconds (versus minutes) is huge.

I just ordered the actuators for my homemade gate this weekend. So far it has been less than I hoped for but I still believe that some of that was due to my setup. The actuators will actually let me experiment a lot more and optimize the angle. Also, I had tried going a little light on the weight and I believe that was a mistake as well. When I finally get it installed (two weeks from now) I will post the results. That is assuming we have some decent weather. It suppossed to get down to 9 degrees on Friday night, so needless to say, the boat is drained and sitting back in my garage instead of the lift.

[newwakesurfer]

I have order up a trim tab kit from LENCO for my homemade surf gate system on my 2001 Super Air. My intent is to install on port side, only one angled/vertical surf tab custom made out of black HDPE. Before I start drilling holes, I was wondering if I should first just try to mount the trim tab horizontally like the Mastercraft system surf tab. I normally surf with the boat loaded up and those in the boat sitting on the starboard side. The more one the side, the bigger and cleaner the wake has been. I'd like to get away from so much lean by fabricating up the surf gate, but I thought I'd see if anyone has done this before and the results. Appreciate any feedback.