Possible solution to prevent hard ballast tank trouble

[swankster]

I know a lot of us with integrated sacks are worried about our hard tanks. I was talking with wakemakers today and this may be a possible solution. The question is where to put the ball valve so it is easy to get to.

[HS]

How does the sac drain -- is the ball valve two way?

[jonfo]

i didnt learn anything looking at the diagram. if using hard tanks i assume they would overflow into the sacs, and vice versa to drain. i removed my hard tanks so i dont have to deal with this anymore, but am intersted in what they recommend...

[acs220]

I have two questions about that diagram. 1. What's the point of the check valve. This picture doesn't show which direction the check valve goes. 2. Splitting the fill side looks like it will make filling the bag take forever and a day since the hard tank will most likely fill first (lower, gravity) and then just start pumping water overboard.

I have an idea of something that I may try this offseason. Not sure if it will work, but thinking of taking a 3-4" piece of pipe and drilling holes in it in all directions. Then glueing the pipe to the inside of the fat sac fitting that screws into the bag. Since I would do this on the vent side, the reduced volume shouldn't be an issue, and having the pipe facing down will effectively prevent the opening from sucking its self down to the bottom of the bag and creating the hard tank vacuum. We'll see if I can make it work.

Another thing to think about that I have both heard from people and read on this forum is that there really isn't much problem with vacuum when the boat is stationary or idling. It seem like the only time I have a problem with the bags sucking down is when we are trying to drain and running at riding speed at the same time. The inlet/outlets being under the boat changes the vacuum pressure when draining alot.

[scottb7]

i may be wrong but unsure how it would work...wouldn't the check valve keep sac from emptying? you need air to flow back in to sac, right?

[HS]

TxJole had a solution with a vacuum break, but haven't heard if he did the install.

[TxJole]

TxJole had a solution with a vacuum break, but haven't heard if he did the install.

Yep STILL sitting right here on my desk. The only problem I see with plumbing in the N36 vacuum breaker is the pump sucking too hard and sucking air and not water once the hard tank is dry. I did ride with the local Hyperlite rep/rider acouple weekends ago and he says he was bending a sending unit regulary and has it narrowed down to the collaspe happens when draining while running.

[TxJole]

I dont see the above diagram working for the simple fact the tee in the overflow will not FORCE water in the tank, it will allow it to go out the overflow which is the least path of resistance. Lose the checks and put the ball valve between the tee and the sac on the overflow side and it would work. Close the ball valve when filling the sac and open after the sac is empty. That will allow fresh air to bypass the sac to the hard tank.

[tdc_worm]

i am assuming the problem is that you are concerned about vaccuum locking the bag and collapsing the hard tank? if so, feeding 1/4" nylon tubing from the fill valve to the overflow valve on the bag solves the problem. use a 1/16" drill bit to make a hole on the end of the valve outside of the o-ring, then use fishing twine to attach to the plastic hose to valve. that will ensure that be bag stays vented no matter what, and the tubing is flexible enough to allow the bags to be folded.

PVC also works just fine, but doesnt allow the bags to be folded....

[TxJole]

Kinda got the idea but with questions. So you are drilling the the 90 quick connect fitting at the low point of the bag and attaching a vent tube? Then run it over to the vent past the bag? I might try this with a barbed reducing tee. Great idea!!!

i am assuming the problem is that you are concerned about vaccuum locking the bag and collapsing the hard tank? if so, feeding 1/4" nylon tubing from the fill valve to the overflow valve on the bag solves the problem. use a 1/16" drill bit to make a hole on the end of the valve outside of the o-ring, then use fishing twine to attach to the plastic hose to valve. that will ensure that be bag stays vented no matter what, and the tubing is flexible enough to allow the bags to be folded.

PVC also works just fine, but doesnt allow the bags to be folded....

[OKWAKEBDR]

tdc_worm Can we get some pictures of this?

[swankster]

I'm skeptical too, that's why I posted it. I should have put that in the original post.

To try to answer the questions...The ball valve is two way and the check valve is set so water will flow out of the boat. The idea was to fill the hard tank first and then if you wanted more weight open the ball value and fill the sack. Since the boat outlet is higher than the sack the water would flow to the sack. On the drain the idea was the hard tank would always have air but the sack would not. IF the sack collapsed it would not get hurt. The water would drain from the sack to the hard tank and the check value would close and help the pump pull the water from the sack to the hard tank.

This is not my idea, it is what WakeMakers suggested unless I wrote something down wrong. I was fearful that on fill it would just spill out of the hard tank and on empty it would suck air from the hard tank and not water from the sack. The principle that water seeks the lowest level may be a play here on the fill side and, if draining the sack, all plumping may need to be higher than all the tank fittings. It appears that some of you share the same thoughts. But I want something there to keep from having to babysit draining the sacks.

I can see this working if the ball valve was Y but then you would be filling and draining each tank\sack separately.

I will send the diagram to WakeMakers to ensure that I have it correct. I may give it a try but hate to spend the money on parts and have it fail.

[swankster]

On second thought, I think tdc_worm has a great solution! I'm going to try it tomorrow instead.

[gride]

i fill my wedge sacs on top of my hard tanks w/o the "carpet" over the tanks. i leave the overflow unhooked from the top of the wedge, and when h20 starts out the side i put in my plugs and watch the sacs fill. then i watch them empty and undo the fill/drain hook up to make sure there's no suction. not the most automated, but it works.

[TxJole]

I wouldn't want 750lbs on top of empty hard tanks to start. I also lost as to what a two way ball valve is.

I'm skeptical too, that's why I posted it. I should have put that in the original post.

To try to answer the questions...The ball valve is two way and the check valve is set so water will flow out of the boat. The idea was to fill the hard tank first and then if you wanted more weight open the ball value and fill the sack. Since the boat outlet is higher than the sack the water would flow to the sack. On the drain the idea was the hard tank would always have air but the sack would not. IF the sack collapsed it would not get hurt. The water would drain from the sack to the hard tank and the check value would close and help the pump pull the water from the sack to the hard tank.

This is not my idea, it is what WakeMakers suggested unless I wrote something down wrong. I was fearful that on fill it would just spill out of the hard tank and on empty it would suck air from the hard tank and not water from the sack. The principle that water seeks the lowest level may be a play here on the fill side and, if draining the sack, all plumping may need to be higher than all the tank fittings. It appears that some of you share the same thoughts. But I want something there to keep from having to babysit draining the sacks.

I can see this working if the ball valve was Y but then you would be filling and draining each tank\sack separately.

I will send the diagram to WakeMakers to ensure that I have it correct. I may give it a try but hate to spend the money on parts and have it fail.