Lake Austin Ballast Ban??

[Quinner]

And Scottb, power turns when you want too?? Would you still do them if the person you are towing mentioned that will only mess up the water you are about to pull them thru??

How would you feel if your driver pulled you that way??

[scottb7]

Quinner, thanks for asking and allowing me to clarify. I only do them (power turns) when lake is empty and not towing. So not a nuisance to anyone on the lake but surely I am to mine and others lake shore. That being said I am always as far as possible from shore.

Just gotta enjoy the engine and 4 blade prop once in a while. I liken it to a dirt biker over revving once in a while to throw dirt. I am wasting gas, so I am sure someone can complain about that. How I am ruining the environment wasting fossil fuels. Although I paid for it myself. But they will say that my payment for the gas is not sufficient to offset the damage....blah blah blah.

[SkiTundra]

Show the picture proving your stuff is not too close to the water and let everyone be the judge!

Scott, you're barking up the wrong tree. Property goes to the ordinary high water (OHW) mark and usage rights extend into the body of water.

Here's an example. A friend has a 130' wide lot. At the lakefront is a bluff. His yard sits 32' above OHW with about a 30% slope (my guess) down to the water. He has riprap along the base of the slope which is all naturally trees. The riprap was originally built in 1962. He had it rebuilt in 1998. He is now facing having to rebuild it again only 15 years later. County & City engineers as well as a consulting engineer have stated that the extensive erosion is due to abnormal wave activity from wakeboats. The riprap system that he will have to now build, due to wakeboats, will cost him a bit over $20k. This is on top of he and other lakefront owners paying in to a Lake Improvement District to maintain the water quality and water level of the lake. This has nothing to do with how close anything is to the water. It is what it is. He can't move the bluff back any further from the water.

From a legal standpoint, as soon as your induced wake touches his property, which is not public, but private, I believe you have become liable.

Every bit of wake you create costs he and other lakefront homeowners money. Every bit of wake you create costs these lakefront homeowners enjoyment of their lakefront. You may think it's fine to have big waves crashing against your shoreline, but others may not care for YOU causing waves to crash against their shoreline. Why should these people pay for your enjoyment?

Most lakeshore homeowners I know are quite reasonable. Even the ones who don't have a wake boat and are irritated by the waves would rather work out some accommodation than put in a complete ban. But if people like you insist on unnecessary power turns and otherwise aren't considerate, they WILL impose bans and they will have the political and legal precedent behind them to do it. Once one or two lakes impose a ban and drive wakeboaters to other lakes increasing the problems there then these will impose bans. It will quickly snowball and you'll find yourself without anywhere to boat.

[surroundsound64]

Well this got tense..

[scottb7]

I am not tense. I think it is good dialogue. I am willing to learn and grow...

But I think all that ordinary high water mark stuff is bull. As far as I know usage right means we can put a dock and/or lift in the water. You are so wrong on the induced wake stuff. Prove it. Show us the language. So you are saying I can put a dock/deck one inch above water and everyone else should drive slow to make sure water does not go over. Why don't you pony up the actual water level 20 years before 1962 and every year since. Just because boats are bigger with bigger wakes does not prove that the water level has not changed and contributed or actually caused his problem. And being a cynic I am not going to trust your quote of some engineer.

A picture will prove the stuff is too close and too low to be reasonable. And if i am wrong then fine i will change my opinion. But seriously i think usage right is just to put boat dock and lift in the water. I have no right to control what happens from wakes of other boats. Unless some lake has passed something special. Which again would just be a bunch of bums controlling what other people do, thinking what they do is right and what other people do is wrong.

Don't you think the same arguments would apply when skiing first started? Ski boats made bigger wave then canoes or whatever. I am ok with communities voting for what makes sense for their locale. Ban wake sports on my lake. I'll move out and leave the lake to all the stand up paddle boarders.

Or just set odd days as no wake, and even as wake....won't solve the erosion problem, but would deal with enjoyment issue.

[swc5150]

Wow, I'm getting thrashed and I'm ON the side of boarders! I hate to see towed watersports banned. Courtesy amongst us all will prevent that. There's a pic of our property on last weeks great water thread, if you really need to see it. It's from across the lake at my buddies house, so you can see the entire shoreline.

[scottb7]

So you have a pic of your boat dock/deck that got gravel thrown on it from boats? You gonna post it? Or was that some analogy to something? I am confused now. The point was people saying their stuff got damage due to boat wakes. My point is there stuff is too close to the water...And I don't think anyone can show damage to property from erosion that is not too close to the water. Some wall got damaged...then it was too close to the water. My own lawn. Duh. I don't think i have the legal right to pristine grass right to the water.

[Quinner]

How about these scenarios:

Your excessively ballasted wake capsizing a boat
Your excessively ballasted wake rips the cleats out of boats rafted together
Either of the above causing bodily injury or death

[scottb7]

Quinner thanks for food for thought. Here is my initial reaction. (Kind of wish we were sitting around fire pit, next to the lake having this discussion). Although you probably hate me already. Wanna surf?

Your excessively ballasted wake capsizing a boat...Do occupants they have on PFD as required. Were they using ordinary caution relative to who else was on the lake and what others including themselves were doing. I have felt bad when I messed up a stand up paddle boarders water. I am sure I would feel awful about this. Maybe I get sued...I do have insurance. But it is a matter of degree. A ski boat could cause a paddle boarder to fall too. So skiing should be banned too?

Your excessively ballasted wake rips the cleats out of boats rafted together...How again are you defining "excessively ballasted"? My boat excessively ballasted is less weight then g23 stock. and less then what someone mentioned as a 30 foot boat with no ballast.

Either of the above causing bodily injury or death...dunno...i guess courts decide and insurance kicks in. Would definitely be a tragedy.

[swc5150]

So you have a pic of your boat dock/deck that got gravel thrown on it from boats? You gonna post it? Or was that some analogy to something? I am confused now. The point was people saying their stuff got damage due to boat wakes. My point is there stuff is too close to the water...And I don't think anyone can show damage to property from erosion that is not too close to the water. Some wall got damaged...then it was too close to the water. My own lawn. Duh. I don't think i have the legal right to pristine grass right to the water.

The gravel comment was an analogy related to the freeway example. I see what you're say, I think...that our dock is too low to the water, allowing rollers to flow over the top, which is our fault. I'm just trying to be reasonable, and give my own experience of losing our slalom course back in the day. If you want to argue with me like this, when I'm on your side of the ban, I wish you luck with those against you.

BTW, Quinner would likely out drink us all around a campfire. Come down to Green Lake, WI to the CCF reunion in July and we can put that theory to the test!

Cheers

[nyryan2001]

That would be my description of surfing, it is right there with tubing and ballasting beyond your skill level, greatest impact requiring the least amount of skill.

And my description of yours is that its a dying antisocial sport that requires such pristine conditions that its quickly becoming infeasible, and already grumpy 2 guys in a boat at 6am become grumpier. by 10am you are off the water mad that someone ruined your butter wiping down your boat grumpy and mad the rest of the day. because waterways are becoming more crowded, thats somehow everyone else's fault and you as the real purist deserve something special. Because you would be a sponsored pro and famous if it werent for the tubers, wakeboarders and surfers.

I am a curteous boater and aware of the 4ft surf wave my boat throws. I dont want to ruin anyone elses time on the water or damage property. But if you think I am going to somehow feel bad about squeezing into the few wind protected areas of my lake to surf and have a good time with my crew, you are wrong. I can surf right thru 1ft chop, 22mph sac'd wakes and other's surf wakes. Its all good and I dont feel bad about that. Sorry it ruins your plans. I dont care about your approval or thoughts of surfing, neither does anyone else.

I suggest you continue to wake up early and get your sets in before I arrive to the lake around 9-10AM on the weekends, you can have the butter back around 6-7pm or most anytime during the week. These waterways are public, for all to use. You dont have exclusive rights over it or how it should be used.... and if your sport is so delicate and fragile that you need these pristine conditions, find youself a private lake with those rules already on the books and have at it.

[chris196]

Scott, in what state are boat occupants required to wear a PFD at all times?

[Quinner]

BTW, Quinner would likely out drink us all around a campfire. Come down to Green Lake, WI to the CCF reunion in July and we can put that theory to the test!

Cheers

LOL, and ski / board / foil / foot with ya as well

Great thought Scott C, we will definitely be there again this year, very much looking forward to it!! GL is also big enough where surfing down the middle would not bother anyone!!

[scottb7]

I said "Do occupants they have on PFD as required"...I did not say "Do occupants have on the required PFD". In other words I am aware that most places do not require a certain age and above to wear a PFD. With thought being that above that age they know if they can swim or not.

A ski buddy friend of mine had to go to the trouble to submerge his ski course when not used, on a tiny lake used (for water sports) by no one but him. But looked at by like 10 people, cause one or two of the 10 called the sheriff.

[chris196]

Ok, so most people here generally agree they don't want a ban.
But, at what point will there be a tipping point. What if someone has a boat weighing over 10K(with ballast) and produces a 10 foot high wake?
I realize we already have that with big cruisers, but I'm talking about a boat that can be trailered. The use of that boat would render a small to medium sized lake unusable for many potential users.
As some have said, just saying its public waters and I can do what I want will not ultimately win.
Something will happen and we're already seeing it.