Has anyone Re proped the G23?

[V8 Killer]

2313 vs 2419

First, I'm happy to report zero vibration or any other issues of the such with the 2419. But I do have an issue with it I don't like, see the test results below.

Tests were done 1 weekend in virtually identical conditions. Same 7 people (900lbs.) on the boat, same gear, same full fuel, same near-smooth water.
All 0-23 tests had full OE ballasts. The G23, full fuel, 900lbs of people, full OE ballasts should weigh right at 9,600lbs. I'm unclear as to what all our gear and upgraded stereo weighs, but no doubt it puts it somewhere over 10,000lbs.

After some self-debate, I decided to do the 0-23 test using what I consider to be "real world" use. When you pull a wakeboarder you idle out to get the line tight, then you hammer down. You also have on cruise control (well 99% of us do). So that's what I did. I didn't want times based on scenarios you'd never be in. Each run was conducted going from idle forward speed until I heard the beep of the cruise kick in, with cruise set to 23.0. I realize that's not exactly 23, its a little less, but the beep was more consistent and is very close to 23.

Please see my post above asking about anyone else having issues when your G first hits the water each day, assuming you turn your batteries off. No one responded, so I don't know if I'm alone here or not, but my G23 is a pig at the beginning of each day if we go full weight. Its like my ECU has to learn the weight all over again. So I actually conducted beginning of the day tests, and end of the day. Same full ballasts, etc. I had a lot less fuel at the end of the day, but for back to back comparisons my end-of-day fuel was within 40 pounds of each other, so still very accurate comparisons.

2313
Top Speed: 38.3
0-23 beginning of day #1: 25.1 seconds (not a typo...thus my concerns in my post above)
0-23 beginning of day #2: 25.3
0-23 beginning of day #3: 22.4
23.0mph RPM: 3975
11.0mph RPM: 3225
0-23 end of day #1: 15.6 seconds
0-23 end of day #2: 15.4
0-23 end of day #3: 15.5

2419
Top Speed: 36.1
0-23 beginning of day #1: 16.5
0-23 beginning of day #2: 16.6
0-23 beginning of day #3: 16.3
23.0mph RPM: 4150
11.0mph RPM: 3350
0-23 end of day #1: 12.2
0-23 end of day #2: 12.3
0-23 end of day #3: 11.9

So there you have it. I don't know what to do. I LOVE the acceleration out of the hole. 12 seconds to full speed allowed me to basically stand up, pull down my shorts, hop a wake, edge out, and edge in and I was going fast enough to get a good first jump/trick. But that RPM jump is not what I expected to see. I was expected to save gas, not use more. I do like the higher RPM for one reason though, on tight turns the motor reacts quicker and there's less bog down / speed loss.

Overall I like the 2419 a lot. Just not thrilled with the RPM increase.

Regards,

Dusty

[ironj32]

Good info. I'm actually impressed with your RPM results, and am surprised they are not higher. From talking with Acme, they said that the 2315 would be about 200 more RPM than the 2313 and the 2419 would be about 400 more RPM than the 2313. If it were me, I'd definitely take the 2419. An additional 175 rpms seems to see a 9 second improvement in hole shot is a minimal cost.

[Laketexoma]

Its weird how some of us are having a vibration issue and some are not. I run 93 in my boat at all times. I know Dusty said he was running 87 earlier. I dought that the premium fuel is making that much more power. Dusty when you get your rider up do you just go straight to WOT, or ease into it?

[fatchance720]

results

2313 vs 2419

First, I'm happy to report zero vibration or any other issues of the such with the 2419. But I do have an issue with it I don't like, see the test results below.

Tests were done 1 weekend in virtually identical conditions. Same 7 people (900lbs.) on the boat, same gear, same full fuel, same near-smooth water.
All 0-23 tests had full OE ballasts. The G23, full fuel, 900lbs of people, full OE ballasts should weigh right at 9,600lbs. I'm unclear as to what all our gear and upgraded stereo weighs, but no doubt it puts it somewhere over 10,000lbs.

After some self-debate, I decided to do the 0-23 test using what I consider to be "real world" use. When you pull a wakeboarder you idle out to get the line tight, then you hammer down. You also have on cruise control (well 99% of us do). So that's what I did. I didn't want times based on scenarios you'd never be in. Each run was conducted going from idle forward speed until I heard the beep of the cruise kick in, with cruise set to 23.0. I realize that's not exactly 23, its a little less, but the beep was more consistent and is very close to 23.

Please see my post above asking about anyone else having issues when your G first hits the water each day, assuming you turn your batteries off. No one responded, so I don't know if I'm alone here or not, but my G23 is a pig at the beginning of each day if we go full weight. Its like my ECU has to learn the weight all over again. So I actually conducted beginning of the day tests, and end of the day. Same full ballasts, etc. I had a lot less fuel at the end of the day, but for back to back comparisons my end-of-day fuel was within 40 pounds of each other, so still very accurate comparisons.

2313
Top Speed: 38.3
0-23 beginning of day #1: 25.1 seconds (not a typo...thus my concerns in my post above)
0-23 beginning of day #2: 25.3
0-23 beginning of day #3: 22.4
23.0mph RPM: 3975
11.0mph RPM: 3225
0-23 end of day #1: 15.6 seconds
0-23 end of day #2: 15.4
0-23 end of day #3: 15.5

2419
Top Speed: 36.1
0-23 beginning of day #1: 16.5
0-23 beginning of day #2: 16.6
0-23 beginning of day #3: 16.3
23.0mph RPM: 4150
11.0mph RPM: 3350
0-23 end of day #1: 12.2
0-23 end of day #2: 12.3
0-23 end of day #3: 11.9

So there you have it. I don't know what to do. I LOVE the acceleration out of the hole. 12 seconds to full speed allowed me to basically stand up, pull down my shorts, hop a wake, edge out, and edge in and I was going fast enough to get a good first jump/trick. But that RPM jump is not what I expected to see. I was expected to save gas, not use more. I do like the higher RPM for one reason though, on tight turns the motor reacts quicker and there's less bog down / speed loss.

Overall I like the 2419 a lot. Just not thrilled with the RPM increase.

Regards,

Dusty

Ok Did you make sure that when you filled the ballast that water was actually spewing out of the side of the boat? I have noticed that every morning my gauges with ballast are always reading 1/4 full or so sometimes even half full. If you input a rider setting that is full ballast it will stop the ballast when the boat thinks its full? I don't know if you were changing ballast throughout the day as I do a lot.

[V8 Killer]

Its weird how some of us are having a vibration issue and some are not. I run 93 in my boat at all times. I know Dusty said he was running 87 earlier. I dought that the premium fuel is making that much more power. Dusty when you get your rider up do you just go straight to WOT, or ease into it?

Yeah I'm always running 87, its what my marina has. I could try 93 with some effort one day and see if anything changes. I also haven't had my boat really that empty with it on yet either.
I presume you've attempted to tighten your prop again just to make sure, right? Silly little thing but crucial. I took a wrench with me and checked it 3 times the first day.
When we pull up a rider we go from idle speed to get a tight line, then pretty much straight WOT. Not like as fast as I can hammer it down, but I don't ease a rider up unless (s)he is relatively new. With a heavy boat it doesn't jerk anyone out of the water and most of us pro start anyhow, which is definitely easier on the joints, etc. over time.

[nyryan2001]

V8- aawesome feedback, thanks! 11.6 seconds... That's almost 15% faster...or 500-1000lbs more able to to carried.

Imoveteeth- if I were to have a prop customized for a 450 G23... It'd be a 15"dia, 12" pitch, and .085-.090 cup. What does it cost for them to change the cup on a prop?

[V8 Killer]

Ok Did you make sure that when you filled the ballast that water was actually spewing out of the side of the boat? I have noticed that every morning my gauges with ballast are always reading 1/4 full or so sometimes even half full. If you input a rider setting that is full ballast it will stop the ballast when the boat thinks its full? I don't know if you were changing ballast throughout the day as I do a lot.

Good question, but yes, absolutely I filled them up like that. Learned years ago to never trust a ballast gauge. I was told that the computer learns over time and gets better at cutting off but so far I haven't found that to be true. Its never a mile off but its rarely accurate either.
We change our ballast settings often too. We have riders with no ballast, half, 3/4, full, and then surf (which is always the same but still requires a change from a wakeboarding setup).

[nyryan2001]

V8- in response to your slower when first out problem... No, nothing like that whatsoever. It's fun to hammer down once in a while coming out of the marina unloaded. Snaps necks.

[V8 Killer]

V8- in response to your slower when first out problem... No, nothing like that whatsoever. It's fun to hammer down once in a while coming out of the marina unloaded. Snaps necks.

I have no issue either unless I'm fully loaded down. But if I'm full ballast early in my day then getting on plane takes forever. It fixes itself within a short period of time, and there's no way a few pounds of fuel weight is making that difference. Hmm...

[imoveteeth]

V8- aawesome feedback, thanks! 11.6 seconds... That's almost 15% faster...or 500-1000lbs more able to to carried.

Imoveteeth- if I were to have a prop customized for a 450 G23... It'd be a 15"dia, 12" pitch, and .085-.090 cup. What does it cost for them to change the cup on a prop?

Nyryan, That is probably about right, but you won't really know until you test it.

V8, glad its working out for you but with my 10 people on the boat (3 were large guys 220+, 2 average size 175, and 5 girls average 120-130), 300 lbs of batteries in the lockers, probably another 125 lbs in the observer compartment, extra wires, Rev 10s, full ballast, and lots of beer, I can tell you it wasn't working out well for us. It seems to be fine with less weight. I'm gonna play with it again this next weekend but I didn't love it heavily loaded.

Nettle Props charges around $25 for a simple cup change, ACME is around $45. I sent a 2313 off to be recupped to a 2315 today since that seems to be the most reliable now.

[V8 Killer]

V8, glad its working out for you but with my 10 people on the boat (3 were large guys 220+, 2 average size 175, and 5 girls average 120-130), 300 lbs of batteries in the lockers, probably another 125 lbs in the observer compartment, extra wires, Rev 10s, full ballast, and lots of beer, I can tell you it wasn't working out well for us. It seems to be fine with less weight. I'm gonna play with it again this next weekend but I didn't love it heavily loaded.

Our weight shouldn't be that far off. Plus if you're using better than 87 octane on your 450 motor you'd be making more power, helping to offset the extra weight you have.
I've got 4 x Rev10, lots of extra wire, ~150lbs extra batteries, larger sub, more amps, 6 wakeboard setups, 3 surfboards, at least 6 handles/lines, 15+ jackets, 3 coolers of food/drink/ice, etc. In other words give/take what everyone has. You're running another ~700 pounds of people above what I had, but at 10,000+ pounds you're talking about a <7% difference in weight...not that significant. Better-than-87 fuel should make up for a good portion of that 7% extra weight. Your results are your and mine are mine, there's zero argument about anything here. I just can't understand why the results are drastically varying.

nauty220 liked his quite a bit. My back to back results speak for themselves.
You and Laketexoma had vibrations. You couldn't even get on plane.
We all have 450 motors. Strange stuff. I'm going to see if I can grab some extra human ballasts and throw them on my G23, really load her down, and see what happens. I don't know if I can get that done this weekend but I'll try. I still have some of my old FatSacs but I sold my pump or I'd do that.

$25 for a cup change is about as cheap as it gets. I think I'll send Robert @ Nettle my 2313 and have him play with it.

[imoveteeth]

V8, I'm glad yours is working well for you! I really wish mine was the same....I use 93 octane in my motor, but perhaps that extra power is causing the prop to slip as the vibration stops with reduced power. The problem is with reduced power it wasn't enough to get it on plane. I had more power to give during the vibration and that's when I hit the rev limiter. So perhaps the fact that you generate less power, keeps the prop from slipping and its able to grab. The big ole boys in the back plus the extra batteries in the rear maybe were just too much for it. I dunno why the difference.

Maybe I need to check how tight it is....I did it on the lift and only held the blades with my hand while I tightened with the wrench. In the past, that's always been enough and I still have to put force on it with the puller to remove. Perhaps I'll use a board to tighten and try again this next weekend. I won't have all quite as many people as moveable ballast but I'll try and see if it makes a difference.

Perhaps us two with vibration just don't know how to put a prop on right!

[V8 Killer]

Perhaps us two with vibration just don't know how to put a prop on right!

I'm sure the chances are slim, but it is a tapered shaft and it is possible to have space created after use. The nut needs only 35-40 ft/lbs of torque to be tight, but that's not to say the prop can't work its way further up. Just something to check and rule out IMHO. I was able to tighten mine more 2 of the times I checked. One of the 2 times it was considerably loose, but I still didn't have vibration pre-check. I took a wrench and goggles on the boat with me and every couple of hours I'd duck under and try to tighten it. If yours is hand tight that's tight enough most likely. I doubt this solves anything.

Your theory on extra power your 450 should make causing the prop to slip sounds more plausible to me. I can try loading my boat with several more people and/or try 93 octane. Not that I want to get vibration with this prop, but I would like to understand for sure what's causing it for some and not others.

I did load my boat evenly during all tests. And if we're feeling heavy I move people to the bow to help us plane. All that rear weight can be a killer as you know.

[nauty220]

Great info V8!

I use 93 for my G and had no vibration, however I did not have as much weight in my boat. Planning on loading up weight this weekend to see.

[LimeTom]

Hey do you guys know anybody that is running at elevation 3000 or higher and what prop they are using?