2014 G23 plumbing extra ballast over stock

[c640947]

Thanks for the feedback. So in the rear are you using some L shaped sac to get it under the midship seats? I figured people were using standard fly high rectangles but if you need to scoot em up sounds like not?

I would definitely be interested in custom sized sacs for the bow under seats, so count me in. I am surprised there is room to spare with xstar bow sacs up there. Seems like a shallow compartment. And I have no idea how 750s would even make sense up there - those are big sacs.

So also do you have the bow sacs plumbed in or are you filling them by hand and they just happen to be under the seats?

When I go out today I am going to try 750s in the rear and a 750 in the front, assuming we can custom make sacs that will get us close to 700 pounds in the front.

Thanks guys.

[ironj32]

Thanks for the feedback. So in the rear are you using some L shaped sac to get it under the midship seats? I figured people were using standard fly high rectangles but if you need to scoot em up sounds like not?

I would definitely be interested in custom sized sacs for the bow under seats, so count me in. I am surprised there is room to spare with xstar bow sacs up there. Seems like a shallow compartment. And I have no idea how 750s would even make sense up there - those are big sacs.

So also do you have the bow sacs plumbed in or are you filling them by hand and they just happen to be under the seats?

When I go out today I am going to try 750s in the rear and a 750 in the front, assuming we can custom make sacs that will get us close to 700 pounds in the front.

Thanks guys.

The XStar bag is 22"W x 44"L x 6"H...there is a lot more room available in that front locker, width wise. The 750's up front expand a great deal sideways, up the side wall. I don't have them plumbed in (because I typically trade in each year).

In the rear, I am using Pro X Series Rear Seat/Center Locker Sac (W705). It is 10" longer, 6" wider, and 10" shorter in height than the typical 750/1100's...it makes for an absolute perfect fit back there. You maximize your floor cover and retain a lot of storage room on top of them (in the trunk).Then I put Pro X Series VDrive Sacs (W713 or W701) under the midship seats. The combination of those two bags is a near exact replication of what the factory ballast is (location and weight).

With all that said, once the telescoping bags are available from Ronix, I might investigate integrating them into the picture (most likely in the far back, and then overflowing into others).

[MLA]

^^^ Ive heard removing/lifting the deck allows for a single run of thick 0/1 cable down a narrow path to the port side from the Batteries.... I havent done it yet, but plan to here over the winter.

We were easily able to get from the batteries in the bilge to both the helm and amp install area. But getting from the helm to under the floor to where the bow sac cavity is (take the OEM sub out and look in) was impossible. Spent enough time on it and moved on to plan B.

I plan to investigate further on the next one though.

[c640947]

First off, I went out yesterday and rode stock ballast full (it was great as demoed) then put roughly 600-700 pounds in each rear gunnel and 600-700 in the front. 4 passengers, 1 rider. WOW. I was lucky to get smooth water and that wake was best I have ever ridden hands down. I didnt test it with extra weight before i bought it as stock it was comparable to other boats with extra ballast. So I knew it would be better with extra but I was grinning ear to ear. Gonna be a fun summer next year.

ironj32-
you are putting W701s under the mid ship seats. I assume they can be T-ed or Y-ed with the W705s you are using in the rear. But those W701s seem tall so Im guessing they don't fill completely due to that mid ship compartment not being very deep?

Also I am interested in custom bow sacs so let me know if you want to coordinate an order (or get more folks involved.) I am ready to start buying sacs and parts.

MLA-
regarding getting to the bow sac cavity: there appears to be a space above the sub that is exposed to that bow area such that you can easily run things up there over the sub. For the ballast hose I was contemplating following electrical lines from the batteries to the amps (to get into that compartment that contains the amps) and then continuing on over the sub to get into the bow sac compartment. Then for the starboard side bow sac I was guessing i would run the hose all the way around the bow if I couldn't come up through the helm into the bow compartment. Make sense? That seems to be the most logical way to plumb in bow sacs.

[A330Captain]

Need some facts as I'm considering a G21

Why would a person need to add weight to a boat that all already has 3000 of internal ballast.
Is it because the wave is to small, no push....... Or what ever.

Remember guys this is a ? Not a debate. I am getting to old and grouchy to be puttsing to make it perfect. I want to buy it perfect

[ironj32]

ironj32-
you are putting W701s under the mid ship seats. I assume they can be T-ed or Y-ed with the W705s you are using in the rear. But those W701s seem tall so Im guessing they don't fill completely due to that mid ship compartment not being very deep?

Also I am interested in custom bow sacs so let me know if you want to coordinate an order (or get more folks involved.) I am ready to start buying sacs and parts.

Yes, you can overflow the rear bags into midship. I did that using only the Tsunami pumps, and there just really isn't enough pressure with those pumps to force the water into the other bag quickly....if you were to use a dedicated Jabsco pump I think it would work really slick. In the case of the Tsunami pumps, it's quicker to just fill one and then the other (or have enough pumps to fill them at the same time.

One thing I'm considering is using a Ronix 400 pounder in the way rear, and then sliding the W705's up, and have them extend from the middle of rear locker all the way up into the midship seats. Reason for that, is maybe those big dog pumps that the Ronix bags have will be able to do it really quickly. So, you would have a Ronix 400/800 pound bag go from far rear and extend about 50 inches forward, then right next to that would be the W705's, which would extend the rest of the way up into midship. Hopefully the telescoping Ronix bags will be available soon to test it out!

[c640947]

In the rear, I am using Pro X Series Rear Seat/Center Locker Sac (W705). It is 10" longer, 6" wider, and 10" shorter in height than the typical 750/1100's...it makes for an absolute perfect fit back there. You maximize your floor cover and retain a lot of storage room on top of them (in the trunk).Then I put Pro X Series VDrive Sacs (W713 or W701) under the midship seats. The combination of those two bags is a near exact replication of what the factory ballast is (location and weight).

I noticed the W705s are only 580 lbs. It seems more economical (and easier to install) to custom order a longer version of the W705. Then you only have one sac to worry about and get the benefit of both. Its similar to the W842 but if you custom ordered it it would be wider and shorter. Or if I combine the length of the two you mentioned, its roughly 100 inches long so 100Lx26Wx10H? Could I go any taller or wider to squeeze a little more in there? I guess ill go measure sometime soon.

I think I am going custom order some. Basically longer W705s as mentioned above. I will also likely see if I can custom order some bow sacs but am unsure of the proper dimensions. Not sure if they could do a triangular sac but I have all the dimensions and could call them. Guessing a triangle that is 41Lx26Wx8H? That would seem to fill the space.

ironj32, if you or other G owners want to join a custom order to potentially reduce cost please let me know. (Not sure if the dimensions of the G21 and G25 would use the same sacs as I am contemplating here.)

Andrew

[c640947]

Why would a person need to add weight to a boat that all already has 3000 of internal ballast.
Is it because the wave is to small, no push....... Or what ever.

Adding more because we can. for most riders its plenty stock. I tested all other boats with extra ballast i brought with me and tested the G with only stock and the G had a better wake. I am mainly talking wakeboarding but assume for surfing (guessing your angle on this) its the same

[Brichter14]

The w705 rear seat/locker sack is listed on wakemakers as 580 lbs but it comes in at 650 lbs. i ordered one this august.

[ironj32]

Yea, the W705 is listed on the Fly High site at 650. I've measured it while full and done the math. It's definitely 650+ when plump full.

[ironj32]

I noticed the W705s are only 580 lbs. It seems more economical (and easier to install) to custom order a longer version of the W705. Then you only have one sac to worry about and get the benefit of both. Its similar to the W842 but if you custom ordered it it would be wider and shorter. Or if I combine the length of the two you mentioned, its roughly 100 inches long so 100Lx26Wx10H? Could I go any taller or wider to squeeze a little more in there? I guess ill go measure sometime soon.

I think I am going custom order some. Basically longer W705s as mentioned above. I will also likely see if I can custom order some bow sacs but am unsure of the proper dimensions. Not sure if they could do a triangular sac but I have all the dimensions and could call them. Guessing a triangle that is 41Lx26Wx8H? That would seem to fill the space.

ironj32, if you or other G owners want to join a custom order to potentially reduce cost please let me know. (Not sure if the dimensions of the G21 and G25 would use the same sacs as I am contemplating here.)

Andrew

I've thought about one big long bag, but one thing to keep in mind is that by having it in two different bags allows for some flexibility in your setup. Once you get more than 4 people in the cabin, the boat doesn't really want to get on plane, so in those situations, I just leave the midship bags empty. I suppose you could always just fold the bag back underneath itself to cutoff the water, and get the correct weight.

I've got all the measurements for what I was planning to order for custom bow bags, but there are on my other computer. I will try to remember to check when I get home from work.

[Kporsch]

Andrew, I've been following this thread for a while as I recently just bought a G23. I didn't realize it was it was you until you put the pic of your boat up (they were prepping yours for delivery when I picked mine up).

I was wondering when you tried the extra weight were you in the USJ or on the lake? I found with my previous boat there was a point of diminishing returns when adding too much weight in the shallow river. I was out sat with about 9 people stock ballast and the wake was the best I've ever been on. Can't wait to try it out on the T.

Kevin

[c640947]

Andrew, I've been following this thread for a while as I recently just bought a G23. I didn't realize it was it was you until you put the pic of your boat up (they were prepping yours for delivery when I picked mine up).

I was wondering when you tried the extra weight were you in the USJ or on the lake? I found with my previous boat there was a point of diminishing returns when adding too much weight in the shallow river. I was out sat with about 9 people stock ballast and the wake was the best I've ever been on. Can't wait to try it out on the T.

Kevin

Hey Kevin yeah I heard you got one too. Congrats to you! When I picked mine up they said you bent your shaft? Hopefully you get it (got it) back going quick.

So I tried it just stock and then tried it again with roughly 600 lbs in the rears and prob 400 in the front. 4 people in the boat. USJ. got up no problem at all (i have the 550 though so that may make a difference.) I will say though not getting a giant wall of water over the back of the boat when you stop is a bit of a trick. I do agree that with the extra weight it was better even vs the xstars fully slammed up there so i was concerned about the depth too but it seemed fine. got a great wake up there. I agree excited to try the trinity.

So back to the topic at hand.... I have made quite a few measurements and come up with what I think is plumable that makes sense. So it has been mentioned front to back needs a 2 to 1 ratio and i will agree that with only the 400 in the front and people in the middle and 600s in the rear gunnels i got some porposing and needed to adjust people. For the bow sacs if you measure the bow storage area, and just measure the top figuring that the angles at the bottom will make the bag just not fill all the way, I show you can put in a triangle sac that is 27Wx41Lx8H. If you use the weight of water per cu in of .03606 that puts the sac at roughly 160 lbs. So two sacs gets you 320 lbs up there. The xstar bow sacs are claimed 250 lbs each but its a triangle shaped area so I am guessing they dont fill all the way and even they would still get you the 175 ish? Or am I underestimating things because these are bags and not boxes so they will expand to a larger size than I am calculating? Might it be better to just get a rectangle that is bigger than the xstar sac at like 27Wx44Lx8H and hope it nets you around 225 lbs each? either way thats what I measured the space to be so regardless of the sac it seems tough to get more than 450 pounds under both seats. I **think** i have figured out how to get lines up there but its too hard to type it all out. (Kevin Im happy to work with you if you want to do yours the same way as mine just PM me. Im not drilling my own through hulls so maybe we can get ours done by the same person if you want to follow suit.)

but going back to the 2 to 1 ratio thing, if I have 400-450 lbs in the front i am guessing 450-550 in each rear, but if you do midship i am guessing you can go more? So (and im looking for feedback on this) I am thinking of doing a long short wide sac that starts roughly midship (using half to most of the midship underseat storage) and goes back to most of the rear. I measured 80Lx22Wx10H. That would get you 635 lbs each but given its a bag it will prob fill to 700-750 lbs. Bigger than the 2 to 1 ratio but given I am distributing them further up (instead of all the way in the rear gunnels) I am hoping it provides an overall appropriate weighting (no porposing, good wake shape, etc.) Ironj32 you had 650s basically in the rear and were prob filling the W13s to roughly 300 lbs (since they are taller than the space) so I am guessing going under the midship seats (vs the rear) helps a ton to not throw the 2 to 1 out of whack? If you didnt have porposing or any issues with your setup I am probably good. And if I go one sac I could always put a valve on there if I changed my mind in the future as its an easy fix to splice in a second bag there.

logistically speaking since there is now no room for an anchor in the bow, by only using part of the midship seat you can still put the anchor in there. No where else good to put it. and with a sac only 10" tall you have still more room left in the rear gunnels than most boats stock for jackets, etc.

So (2) 700s in the rear 1400 + (2) 225s in the bow 450 = 1850 lbs extra weight that is plumbable full automatic and not having to adjust. So on top of factory 2850 that's 4700 lbs. Just no way to get more weight in the front and if you go more rear you are throwing the 2 to 1 too much out of whack. Suggestions? Or maybe the way I have it is pretty good. haha actually as i reread this 4700 fully plumbed is pretty impressive so Im prob good.

Now I know I can always just put extra sacs in there by hand and i am sure i will occasionally when i want to really make it big. (the new ronix ones.) But given my overall constraints (young kids, etc) I am trying to get the best possible setup without HAVING to fill more.

So any suggestions welcome.

As a side note, in addition to the 3 new intakes in the hull and the 4 new overflows in the side, I show I will also need roughly:
3 reversible pumps
3 switches
some wire and fuses (i havent put in pumps before so this part I dont know how to do)
4 angled quick connects
4 straight quick connects
1 "Y" splitter
maybe some extra "L" angles but hope not to in order to keep water flow rate high
24 hose clamps
532 inches (44.3 feet) of hose for the bow sacs and overflows
524 inches (43.6 feet) of hose for the rear sacs and overflows

I am sure the hose lengths are conservative but man that seems like a lot. Kevin Im happy to do mine first and then sell you leftover hose so you then aso know exactly how much to buy?

Also, anyone know how I can figure out what factory OEM parts Nautique uses for the through hulls and side vents so mine match?

Sorry long winded but I am writing this out for my own benefit (to remember what I have calculated) and to the benefit of anyone considering it so they can see exactly the steps I took. As with my last boat ill post pics and all that good stuff once i get it done.

[ironj32]

If I get custom bow sacs made, they will be one of these two. They are longer and wider than one would suspect could fit, but there is a lot of extra room way up front and up the side walls.

[kopp210]

If you get a group buy going on some of those bags I'm in!

I ran 750s in the back lockers and 2 bags up front. Combine that with 800 lbs of lead stashed under the driver seat and directly across under the passenger seat and that was the perfect set-up for us.

The bags I had up front were a pain because the shape was way off and the vents/fills were all in the wrong spots. Those you have designed look perfect.