Calling all ballast gurus

[aZ`]

Hi there, I am after some advice on how to possibly make my ballast system a little more user friendly.

My current ballast setup is the same for all 3 areas (port, starboard and belly)..
Pump to T valve
T valve to tank, with factory overflow/vent
T valve to sac, sealed.

(there is a T connection on the vent line where I believe the sacs used to vent but have been blocked off so that the sacs can fully drain)
Here is a diagram so we're all on the same page.


Now the issue I have with this is, when cruising to our boarding spot I start filling the tanks, but I need someone at the back to pop the hatches to make sure the valves are set to tank, then once I see on the gauges that they're full, I need said person to re open the hatches and switch the valve to sac, then I need them to stay there an monitor the capacity of the sac.
And it's the same when emptying, I need someone to keep an eye on the sacs and once empty to flick the valves back over to tank.




My only thought is to replace the T valves with motorised units controlled at the helm and have the sacs vent through the hull, but with a check valve in place so they can drain completely. The problem I have with this is it would be nice to fill the sacs first all the way and then I can use the gauges on the tanks to adjust the level (we often ride with belly sac/tank full, and rear tank full sac 1/2-2/3 full), and with the sacs overflowing into the same overflow/vent line as the tanks then any overflow from the sac could leak into the the tank. I don't particularly want to drill more holes in my boat.

I don't like the idea of deleting the T valves and overflowing tank into sac as this leads to either not draining the sac completely (vented) or imploding the factory tank (sealed).

Has anyone setup a similar system with any success?

[nyryan2001]

You need an overflow for your extra sacs. So once your factory ballast is full... You flip the valve and forget about it till it starts peeing again from sac overflow... Then cut the pumps off.

same as what's on mine you can Y into your existing thru hull overflow. No new holes to drill. Tap into the existing overflow... On the downhill side. The first 6" of hose that is attached to your OEM thru hull should go straight up into the gunnel, so water can't come in or out without a pump pushing the water, due to that rise in hose.

plumb your sac overflow Y into that existing downhill portion of the OEM overfill hose right before it's exits thru hull. Gravity keeps it from going up and over back into the OEM tank if it was empty for some reason. Pump still sucks the sacs 98% flat.

very simple... All you need for each side is 2-3ft of Hose, barbed connection at the sac and a Y to tie in to your already existing overflow right near the thru hull fitting to provide an overflow for your extra sac. Ensure after the Y, the OEM overflow hose goes up 6+" straight up so gravity works in your favor.

[aZ`]

plumb your sac overflow Y into that existing downhill portion of the OEM overfill hose right before it's exits thru hull. Gravity keeps it from going up and over back into the OEM tank if it was empty for some reason. Pump still sucks the sacs 98% flat.

Thanks ryan,
But if you put a gravity loop in the factory vent line, and T the sac vent into it on the downhill portion then couldn't tank overflow water enter the sac?
My most recent thought would be to run the vent hose from the thru hull straight up, and fit a Y piece with both tank and sac hoses looping up and over at the same height, then neither should affect the other.
edit: I think we're basically talking about the same idea here just explained differently.

The reason the tank may be empty, would be, I like the idea of having a vent on the sac, like you say, listening for the overflow, flip the valve then watch the gauges, this way you can have the system not entirely full and know exactly how full you are from the helm.

Also do you orientate the sacs so that the fill/drain hole is towards the front of the boat on that slight downhill section of the tank?
Mine are currently spun around and fill/drain from the back, and even with them sealed, sometimes they wont suck dry.

[xrichard]

Hi aZ...I have an 08 and I've tried a number of different configurations. The best one by far: remove the rear hard tanks and replace them with large bags. This side steps your questions...but because the bags fill every nook and cranny, you get the ability to get both more weight and more storage. I finally did this 1.5 years ago and wish I'd done it sooner.

Second best: go ahead an piggy back the sacks to the hard tank. I know you said you don't like this set up, but your concerns can easily be addressed by running a small vent line through the soft sack to make sure it always is able to vent the hard tank so the hard tank doesn't get damaged. If you piggy back, you definitely need to address this issue--I know as I broke two tank sensors before I addressed it.

Other options: To do exactly what you're wanting to do, I'd do what you guys discussed above or I'd drill an additional vent for the sack--that way you can close off the hard tank with one valve as you do now, fill the sack until it over flows, then flip the valve and fill the hard tank by the gauges. You could also add separate pumps for the sacks.

Honestly, there's little value and some additional headache with the setup you're contemplating. Adding a full sack of ballast and then tweaking based on the hard tank being 1/2 or 3/4 full per the gauge simply isn't very effective if you're concerned about wake size changing slightly. If you're concerned about front/back or side/side distribution, you're much better off buying a couple of lead sacks (I have Lead Wake--they're nice) and moving those around so you can address that instantly and on the fly.

Best of luck!

[scottb7]

Agree, pull the hard tanks and put 1100 sacs in the back. You will love it. Easy to pull them out and clean. Easy to service engine. You won't miss the gauges. One button press is 1/3, two button presses 2/3.

[Ben.randell]

Any issue with draining once the hard tanks are gone? Specifically having the pump run dry after the sacs are empty?


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[nyryan2001]

Thanks ryan,
But if you put a gravity loop in the factory vent line, and T the sac vent into it on the downhill portion then couldn't tank overflow water enter the sac?

Possible? Yes. Likely no. Your extra sac hose gets raised high also... So gravity loop after the T on that sac overflow line also.

Also do you orientate the sacs so that the fill/drain hole is towards the front of the boat on that slight downhill section of the tank?

Fills from the lower front. Overflow comes off the top in 2 locations. I'll post some pics.

..

[nyryan2001]

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[nyryan2001]

And my valve setup




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[aZ`]

Thanks for the pics, sorry ryan for some reason I thought you had a 210, obviously the G rear locker is a different setup to the 210, and what I was meaning was my 400lb bags are longer than the flat section on top of the factory tank, and they fill/drain from the back, so even if in theory a sealed bag should drain 100%, it seems to leave a little bit down the front, where the tank tapers off. I know most of you probably think this is a non issue, but here in Aus, my closest water is over 100miles away and my tow vehicle is rated at 2500kg (210 is 2365kg empty on trailer) so I really don't like lugging it around with weight that I don't need to.

[xrichard]

aZ: when I ran 400lbs vdrive sacks on top of factory tanks in my '08 210, I placed a piece of exterior plywood on top of the tank slightly longer than the bag to keep the front of the sack from sloping down at the front with the hard tank. You can buy matching carpet (Nautique calls it "trunk liner" from your local dealer or Nautiqueparts) or just put the plywood under the existing carpeted panel and play with the extra carpet at the front of the hard tank to cover the portion of the plywood that cantilevers over the front portion of the tank (that's what I did).

If you do this, you can fill/empty the sack from the rear w/o problem. I know I already mentioned this, but if you piggy back it to the hard tank, make sure you address the problem of the sack collapsing all the way and preventing the hard tank from pulling air while draining--if you don't, you'll eventually pull the hard tank down enough to damage the sensor. I initially tried placing a couple of perforated PVC pipes in each bag--it was ineffective. There have been a couple of posts here about running a vent line through the sack and it looks to be very effective.

nyryan2001: what brand is the valve you used and where did you buy it? I have another application for something like that.

[aZ`]

Thanks Richard! That's a good idea.
I'm glad you told me about the perforated PVC pipe being ineffective as that's the method I probably would have used. A small diameter piece of hose seems like a good idea.

[xrichard]

Here's a photo of a vent line threaded through a sack (from someone else's post):

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/12/pa8e6yzu.jpg

Another option (the one I ended up using): A bungee from the top rear fitting on the fatsack to the top rear of the divider between the storage compartment and engine. It holds the rear fitting of the fatsack up so the bag cannot completely collapse and cut off vent air to the hard tank. It might be a little ghetto, but it was quick, easy, and effective. Since it was at the back of the compartment, using a black bungee made it hardly noticeable.

[moto822]

I have similar on one side. In my boat I removed the hard tanks and have two soft tanks on my port for surfing. I have a "T" valve on the vents of both tanks with check valves so when full they both can only run out the side of the boat. I have another selector on the fill of both. Once I see water dumping I switch the selector to the next side till it dumps water. then I know both are full.