Convert 2009 210 to empty ballast out above waterline?

[bmh2208]

Hey guys.... I did some searching but didn't come up with anything....

Has anyone successfully converted a 2008+ ballast system to empty through the overflow ports (or addt'l) ports above the waterline?

Other than the obvious cool factor, lol, It would be nice to know exactly when the pumps stop emptying rather than waiting on the timer or looking at the guage (which doesn't seem to be that accurate).

I used to have a '03 SANTE, and it was simple to know when the tanks were done. The crap senders they used back then never worked, so we always had to rely on what the pump was doing visually.

On this '09 my buddy has, it seems to me like it would be better if it could be plumbed to work the old way. I understand the pumps are completely different, but I can imagine a series of check valves would do the trick.

This has come up because it took us a little while to notice that the center ballast wasn't working even though the pump was pumping. You can't tell its emptying at all because it goes under the waterline. Something I always hated about MC, but loved about my old nauty.

Boat is a '09 210 with 750lbs piggy in the rear and bow filler sac piggy'd up front. going to have to add ski locker sack to get porpoising to stop. Already upgraded prop btw to a 16xx acme I believe.

Thanks for all the help! Other than the technical benefit of doing this, I really do miss hearing and seeing over 3K of water piss out the sides of the boat when we decide we are done riding for the night.

[bmh2208]

Ah...and I just realized I started this in general. Mod...please move to maintenance and tech if you would like. sorry. been ages since I've been on this board.


Cheers!

[Nautiquehunter]

Seems like a lot of work to fix a problem that dosnt exist? Just push the button twice for two fill cycles and repeat twice to empty . The gauges on me 08 work very well.

[bmh2208]

d@mn I knew that was coming....yes, I know that answer, and yes, it is the obvious choice for some people (ie 100% stock ballast).

But you still never actually know that water is being pumped out. Sure, you can wait to see the gauge to start moving, but how long do you have to wait? And for the piggyback setup, you don't see any movement until the sacs are completely empty and started to empty the hard tanks.

So.....there is indeed a problem with actually knowing that water is being emptied when you are still working with water in the soft sacs.

[Nordicron]

Yeah I can see why you would want to do this and would think its possible with some more hose and sets of check valves.

As for porpoising issue what gps puck do u have? If it's the old round one I'd say that's your porpoising culprit. Yes u should have more belly ballast also but porpoising can be almost whipped out with the new gps and software update.


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[scottb7]

First of all let me say that I agree with the cool factor and I agree with the problem statement.

I pulled my rear tanks and have sac's and would like to know when they are empty more easily. Usually I just lean over each corner and lift one side of the sac to get it all to back which is where the pump is hooked up to. Just thinking this thru the one pump either pulls water from the bottom of the boat or pushes it out the bottom of the boat, depending on the direction the pump spins.

So if you push the water out the side of the boat then you not have a vent, would you? You would probably like suggested above have to have more hoses or something. You would want use the side of boat vent when emptying but not filling.

Someone smarter then me would have to draw that out, and then I would probably not be smart enough to remember how to work it. So I would probably have to stay with what i got going.

I guess I can just overflow stuff to get the cool - out the side of the boat waterfall...

[bmh2208]

Got the belly tank to empty finally. Had to prime it by blowing through vent line (disconnected from piggy bow sac). I'm guessing that we air-locked the pump when trying to fill the belly while underway. The impellers are the yellow ones and are possibly the original. Guessing they were too weak to prime themselves again. They are pretty flimsy. Ordering a set of new green ones.

Another reason why the visual check for emptying would be nice. We had no idea we were not pumping any water. And unless you disconnect the port right at pump, there is no way to tell. Maybe a section of clear hosing would suffice, albeit not that cool.

Furthermore, I think that they will empty much much faster with a proper thru-hull above waterline. They used a fairly restrictive flat grate over the hull. At speed, I bet that it can barely pull any water through the pickups. If these were changed to scoop style like the motor raw water pump, I bet fill times could be increased and be able to fill reliably underway.

I might be wrong, but I thought on my '03, they used a bigger mushroom style intake. The tiny a$$ holed discs they are using now seem like a step in the wrong direction. I attached a pic showing the spray when it is emptying. I know those pumps will blow 10x that amount of water. the stock old rule empty pumps would shoot a solid stream 4-5' out the side of the boat.

I will say that overall, the boat is light years beyond what I had. But I'll reserve my final judgement after I dig into the power and grounding to see if they stopped running all the power through the stupid, "all, on/off,bilge" power switch.

[bmh2208]

and I think it is the older round style gps receiver. I did find that fix for the porpoising, but I thought they fixed that in '09. forgot to look today.

I have a better fix for that though if it truly the cause, make everyone learn how to drive a boat without pp.

[Nordicron]

and I think it is the older round style gps receiver. I did find that fix for the porpoising, but I thought they fixed that in '09. forgot to look today.

I have a better fix for that though if it truly the cause, make everyone learn how to drive a boat without pp.

No I don't thing it was fixed till atleast 10'. It will be night and day difference with the new receiver and software.

I think the tanks empty pretty darn fast while underway. In fact I think when emptying while underway and with the piggy back bags is how people collapse their tanks. Emptying your way would alleviate that issue.


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[bmh2208]

man that sucks. and this isn't covered under some sort of recall? I've seen prices for +$300 for antenna. Is it really that expensive for the part?

[Nordicron]

man that sucks. and this isn't covered under some sort of recall? I've seen prices for +$300 for antenna. Is it really that expensive for the part?

Unfortunately it's not covered. I have heard some dealers and or Nautique worked with early customers to do it pretty cheaply or even under warranty but I'm sure those days are long gone. If I were u I would just go ahead and do it. Consider it one of the best mods you can ever do for your boat. It's that good!


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[bmh2208]

just doing some quick math....jabsco data sheet says 9GPM @ 5ft of head. Its more like 2-3ft, but the table doesn't go that low. Assuming 8.3lbs/gal of water, thats about 75lbs/minute of water per pump. How big are stock rears? 250lbs? (2x250+1x450=900?) that would be ~3.5mins each rear tank. Thats pretty fast if thats reality, which its not because of losses, but it should be close. I'm pretty sure it took way longer than that to fill and empty before we added the extra ballast.

Adding in the piggyback we did, and assuming that I can fill/empty at 3x 75lbs/min = 225lbs/min, I should be able to go completely fill and empty in 3100lbs/225 = ~14mins. thats also assuming the weight is distributed across all 3 pumps. I dont know if thats the case or not. Will have to check it after we change all the impellers. But it might be realistic.

Or my math is just wayyy off lol.

Cheers!

[bmh2208]

Not my boat, so yeah, I've already told my friend to do it, lol. I'm really good at spending his money. I've been the one that had boats all these years, so its my turn to just play without the note. Plus, he gets free $100+/hr from me to take care of his boat.

But he's done it right the whole way, so I don't see him skimping on this either. Boat is just about as good as it can get. Added wetsounds 420, 3k total ballast, new prop, lights are on order. We added a pdx4.150 to the towers, so until he gets ready to drop some real coin on some new amps and a real sub, it'll have to do. She bangs pretty hard.

And of course, we started him with the right boat. I thought I never would find a boat that I loved more than my '03 210, but this is definitely it. Not the pig that the 230 is. at least not as bad a one. If I could fix the throttle engagement throw some the placebo affect might fix that lol. I don't understand why it takes almost 45degs to get it above idle.

[bmh2208]

sorry. not the best pics. I'll try and grab some more the next time we go out.

[Nautiquehunter]

All of this and its not even your boat? I have an idea for you take the yellow impellers out and throw them in the garbage. They are known for spinning the center out where is attaches to the shaft. That will cause intermittent and or slow water flow. Buy your buddy some green impellers and I think all your problems will disappear. Its a lot cheaper and easier than redesigning the entire system.

Do you really think the 230 is a Pig?