Death of the 196... and CC?

[M3Fan]

It's winter time. Time to talk about random stuff that is hypothetical. Here is the question: What is the fate of the 196, and furthermore, CC in today's inboard market? Here are some points for discussion:

- Although the 196 is closed bow, it has a good amount of space because the windshield is pushed up further than the Bu and MC CB boats. Note even on the SNOB the windshield and top deck are pushed back.

- Does CC care about "competing" with Malibu's RLXi? Would they make a bigger, cheaper boat than the 206 with the same wake as the 196? Then axe the 196? Or are they not in the same market, so who cares?

- Would CC give up the Canoe-tapered tail hull design just to make a wider locker, and have some square-tailed boat like everyone else?

- Does CC even care about locker space, passenger seat sizes, etc?

- Has anyone heard from CC regarding the closed bow future?

- Does the average inboard buyer care how the boat is constructed, or is a "big three" boat a big three boat so who cares, buy the one with the most space and is the cheapest?

-Adding more to the above- Is CC wasting time and effort building the boats so thouroughly and solidly? Is it the wrong marketing tactic? Perhaps they will need to concentrate on space in the boats?

-Is it safe to assume the average big 3 inboard buyer is making decisions with a measuring tape (to measure space, seats, lockers, etc) and an option list, or is there something more?

-DOES ANYBODY have sales numbers by model for CC for any year?

-CC has tried making intro models in the past, such as the Ski Tique and the Ski 176, and Air 176. They haven't really taken off. Will they try again?


My feeling is this- you don't buy a CC with a measuring tape and option list and bottom line price. In my case, I really like the boats and always have. It is mostly opinion, mixed in with a bit of passion and an appreciation for the high quality materials and construction process. Maybe I am succumbing to a big marketing scam and gimmick. Sure, CC uses AME 5000 resin, super thick gel, built in floor, etc., but maybe these are just marketing tactics to make you feel special. Like the luggage in Joe Vs the Volcano. A market need for the "premium" product exists with cars, clothes, tools, electronics, etc. Is CC counting on buyers to purchase just because it is the most expensive brand? Discuss.

[AbunDiga909]

RE: Death of the 196... and CC?

I look at it this way... my family bought an '82 SN 2001 when it was new. Now, it's my uncle's boat and we still use it today. It needs some service here and there, but we still use the boat, she's not dead yet. I try convincing him to upgrade, and in doing so, I realize that today's CC 196 SE is essentially the exact same boat as my uncles 2001. Sure, its a little bigger, got a nicer hull, and a new engine, but for the most part its the same boat, same design. Both seat 6, both closed bow, both have sporty feeling, both low to the ground... The 196 has never changed and continues to represent CC for what they are known for. The 196 has not gone in the direction of the 220, 226, & 211 with the high freeboard and rounded end. So, the fact that this boat, the 196 SE, Ski Nautique, 2001, whatever you want to call it, it's really been the same boat with just a few technological upgrades. I think that says something about history, and what really works and the importance of sometimes simple is the way to go. And, if my uncle were to buy a new boat, the only chance it would ever happen if he were convinced the the 196 is essentially the same boat as he has, just newer... and it is...

Not sure if that answers your question, but just something I realize about CC that no other company can duplicate. One of the many reasons why I am a CC customer, and only a CC customer.

[M3Fan]

RE: Death of the 196... and CC?

I just thought of something else- why doesn't CC run the 206 in tourneys? Or do they? Are they trying to say something? MC and Bu run open bows.

[AbunDiga909]

RE: Death of the 196... and CC?

I actually brought that up on the MC forum once... www.tmcowners.com At the time I thought CC uses the 196 for all the tournaments, but now I hear they use the 206 at some and only the 196 at the real serious ones like the Masters. But as we know although the 206 produces a great wake it isn't the same as the 196 and the boats are similar, but not identical at all.

On the other hand (I don't know about BU) but MC's 190 and 197 are the same boats really. The only difference is that the 197 has the open bow physically. I've looked at the specs and everything is the same. They even have the same passanger capacity--6 I think, or maybe 8 MC is usually more than CC. But when I talked to a guy from MC pretty high up (their webmaster) he said that they used the 197 in their tournaments because they are the exact same boat and produce the same wakes, as long as no one is sitting in the bow.

I think this makes CC not look so good to some people. To us we see the 196 as the hardcore slalom boat we know its the best #1. But some guy tuning into OLN to watch a tournament sees a CC small closed bow and then sees the larger MC open bow being used both in the tournaments, he's gonna want a MC more b/c they can make the same wake, and still have a larger and nicer boat for more people...

[Hollywood]

RE: Death of the 196... and CC?

I'm a 196 fan don't care how big the locker is, or if there is even one. I like that size boat for slalom trick, and hopefully more jump in the future. Don't need an open bow for anything. Sure when we're out there and there are 10 people in the boat it would be nice, but when it's just 4 for a slalom/barefoot set it's perfect. We don't pack up the boat and spend the whole day out on the lake so our priorities are much different (seating, storage).

I'm very observant/detail orientated and MC and Malibu aren't even close in comfort and quality in my eyes. I seem to have "older" taste, my ideal boat being a TSC w/ python. The vinyl used, gel, floor and all the other things that are supposedly so "great" with a CC are important to me as as the years pass, it's important the boat holds up well.

Bottom line, I'm a huge 196 fan and will always be. Once again this is mostly because of what my priorities are behind the boat, as well as classic styling. If wakeboarding were my #1 concern, this probably wouldn't be true.

[skinautique]

RE: Death of the 196... and CC?

I don't think you will see the 196 disappear. This has been the boat that got the whole Nautique name started. CC has a market that the other companies don't have and that is a hardcore closed bow ski boat. They have a 206 to compete with the 197 MC and Response LXi but they don't push it. This market may not be huge like it once was but it is still there and they recognize it. I do think that CC needs to continue building a high quality product but they also need to come out with another boat line under the Correct Craft name that will compete with Moomba, Gekko, etc. The price has to be equivalent to these boat companies. Not in the ball park. As of now, they are not headed in this direction. To answer the question about the most popular models. In the late 90's the ski nautique was #1 for them. Now it is the 211 and 210.

[j2nh]

When CC stops making the 196 I will no longer be a CC customer. I have now owned 3 and with each one the refinements keep improving the boat from a driving and skiing standpoint.
I am a skier first and the 196 has an excellent wake for slalom, trick, jump and an acceptable wake for barefooting. Bonus is that a boom is able to be used for barefooting and teaching skiing without the sidespray issue of late model Prostars.
I would imagine that the issue boils down to where you ski. For me it is always off of a dock, whether at my home or down the river at our club site. 3 in the boat and everybody else on the dock. The closed bow offers a fair amount of space for storage up front and combined with the locker in back nothing is left out in the open. I would never trade the storage space under the bow for the ability to carry a couple of more people. We have around 10 Nautiques in our club from middle 90's vintage to 05's, none are open bows.

Open bow = Loss of storage space & decreased visibility when driving.

I am pretty sure that CC sells out its build capacity each year, around 925 boats. One reason for dropping the 196 would be profit margin. If you can sell everything you make then why not make models with the highest profit margin? The down side is that you will push a segment of your customers to Malibu, who are again making the closed bow Response, and Mastercraft and they may never return. It's there business and they, CC, are entitled to make what they choose but as a customer it is my choice where I drop my coin.

[Richard-Howell]

Productions Numbers

Geat Post

Does anyone here know what the production numbers are or at least percentages of the 196/206?

We recently chose those 206 over the rlxi.

The quality is slightly noticable (to me) brand new
and will become more noticable 5-10 years from now (we hold on to our boats a long time).

On most other criteria the 206 won with 3 exceptions 2 inch beam, wind screen, and price. Pretty minor stuff. Their bow may be a little bigger and boat has more freeboard but our use if for calm water. the way we use the boat the bow is basically for kids and mooring access.


The rlxi seem to have a lots of glitter and fluff. This could be better
or worse, it simply comes down to personal preference. Personally I don't
like their dashes on any model compared to CC.

What wasn't personal preference was the observer seat on the bu.
No gull wing access to storage and worse of all with 2 adults on it the person on the outside has a tapered windshield in their shoulder blade. Not good. The seating especailly drive looks more posh on the Bu but is much more comfortable on the 206. Interestingly enough 10 years ago we chose the 196 cb over the mastercraft. The seats on them MC stopped us for really going through the boat.

The production numbers would really be interesting. My guess is that CC has a comfortable idea of how many boats they are going to produce in a model year and doesn't stretch capacity to achieve a higher number.

It's not a random sampling by any stretch but on our 16 miles radius lake in New Hampshire (Newfound Lake) next year my guess is that we will have the only 206 compared to about 8 rlxi's. Overall their are about 8 cc's and 15 bu's, 2 or 3 Tige's, 2 mastercrafts, 2 supras, 1 moomba, 1 sanger and 1 Gekko but who is counting?

Most of the others are I/O's. I was trying to describe those people without being negative. Couldn't do it so they are known as others. <LOL>

The 196's are here to stay! (IMO).

[mlange]

RE: Productions Numbers

Hope you guys don't mind someone chiming in on this from the 'bu side.

I don't live on a lake, so when I was looking for a new boat last year space and comfort were my two major concerns followed very closely by wake characteristics and price. I ended up going with an RLXi because while I go out in the morning with just a couple other guys, I spend more time on the boat with the whole family and needed the open bow and feel the 'bu is more comfortable than the CC.

I never even looked at the MC 197 open bow because it was overpriced IMHO given that I felt its build quality was no better than Malibu's.

Having said that, if I lived on a lake and needed a tow machine, the 196 would without a doubt be my first choice. In this scenario, the family would be kicked off the tow boat and told to go camp out on the party barge. I would be very disappointed if CC dropped the 196.

Just my $0.02.
Mike

[66Skylark]

I say, as long as there is a market for a closed bow inboard and they sell, Correct Craft should continue to make one. (Besides, the 196 is the best looking CC out there. IMO)

I think if they are a smart consumer they care about how the boat is constructed. The older I get the more I find the old saying, “You get what you pay for” to be true… I’m willing to pay a little extra for quality. Correct Craft has always built quality boats and I don’t think they should ever sacrifice quality for price. I think if my grandparents bought a MC 40 years ago I doubt it would still be sitting in our garage today, like the 66.

The model each of us buys will be determined by our needs. I’m on a lake so I’m not worried about storage the way someone who has to trailers would be. It might not be the determining factor in someone’s decision, but the towing capacity of the tow vehicle might be considered when purchasing. The sports each of us is into, seating capacity, etc…

I think it is up to CC to try to meet our needs as best they can through updating existing boats, redesigning boats and introducing new models. CC should be doing research/customer focus groups/etc. to make sure they stay in tune with customer needs/wants. I guess the question then becomes, how quickly can CC adjust it’s product to meet customer needs?

I do believe CC should offer an entry level model – similar to the 176 they built in the late 90’s. I believe they’d have better luck marketing that as an entry level model, rather than stripping down a 196. Hopefully they’ll consider a new 176 when they get into the new factory.

My best wishes to everyone.

[auskier]

I just bought a used 196 last spring. Why choose a 196? Because a Ski Nautique 196 is the best driver's boat on the market. My first time in an inboard ski boat was in a 1977 Ski Nautique. We later bought that very boat from the family. (and as a side note I married their daughter :-) Later my dad bought a newer (1990) Mastercraft Tristar. Despite the fact that the slalom wake behind this boat was very good compared to an older Ski Nautique I hated driving the boat. I hated the open bow (loss of storage and people sitting in front of you) I hated the long windshield that curved around beside the driver and the list could go on. Then I went to college and started skiing with a ski team. We got a brand new Ski Nautique every year (1997 - 2000). We put 600 + hours per year on the boats and I was driving for many of those. Since then I've had the opportunity to drive many other boats and compare the difference; nothing compares to the feel of the 196. Of course it's the best boat for me since I'm a die-hard slalom guy who tricks as well. However I could have chosen other boats that the wakes would have been fine for my talent level (35' off)

I also believe in the quality of Correct Craft as a company and the product that they put out. I would hate to see them put their name on a lesser quality boat. For me a cheaper Nautique was a used one. I'd rather have my used Nautique than pretty much any other boat brand new (and that includes the other two of the big three) Sure Correct Craft could offer a stripped down version without all the amenities, but I think the boat buyer who is buying based mostly on price is probably going to choose the bling over quality.

I really can't see Correct Craft dropping the 196 because despite all the innovations I see them as a company steeped in tradition. (Just look at the 'new' 2006 logo for the 196 and 206) Hopefully they'll keep making enough for us old-fashioned guys (even though I'm pretty young) because as far as I’m concerned it’s the epitome of the ski boat.

[SNMike]

Ditto on all the above. The California look, as I call it, of the MC and BU and almost every other inboard out there pertaining to the windshield is one of my HUGE pet peeves. I learned to ski behind a 196, so at first in was passion and love at first ski. But the wrap around you, way too raked back at you windshield of the others in and of itself, is enough to make me feel and think I/O pleasure boat. I feel trapped and closed in when I drive someone else's brand. I've driven most other brands and the top of the windshield was almost at eye level, and I'm short. 5'10" PDT_001 The quality of the others didn't compare IMHO. There were screws exposed all over the RLXI. I'll pay the extra jack for the best. With that, my BEST to ALL!! Mike

[darrel409]

Concur w/ all of the above esp. the wrap windows and lack of a gull wing seat. I first started skiing the course behind a 81 SN and then a friends 89 2001 boat. Then in the early 90's I joined a tournament ski club and had the opportunity to get much more involved in the sport and learn about the boats. I volunteered to drive, time or observe so i was always in the boats. It was almost an unwritten rule that the Nautiques were regarded as the standard and the more time spent in them one could discover why on their own. They drove better, handled better, better wake characteristics, less spray, better designed and quality of materials used on interiors. This wasnt just one of them but nearly every SN i drove "felt" better than the other ski boats. When i drove a friends brand new 95 w/ a GT40 it was as if the slalom gods had delivered directly from the mountain top. It lacked nothing. Shortly after i bought my first Nautique. I couldnt cough up enough jack for a new one and "settled" on a Pro Boss 93 w/ sloped the transom. Last year i bought a 95 and am still extremely stoked with it.
I think CC's original core always will be CB SN 196 owners, I dont think they could ever stop building that boat. When i see a 196 trailered down the highway, tied to a dock or on the lake i get a picture in my mind of the owner and its a different guy than the one with a with an X-Star.

[83sn2001]

There is still a market for this boat. If there wasn't, they wouldn't have spent the money on the new hull design over the last few years. It will probably not be their best seller ever again, but the hard core slalom skiers definitly like it. I like it as well and I mainly wakeboard and trick. I prefer the closed bow for the look as well as the way they drive and handle. When I get in an open bow I feel like I'm driving a station wagon. I like the open bow but I don't like people sitting in front of me. I agree with the windshield issue. The wrap around makes you feel closed in. The bottom line is if they can build the boat and make money they will build it. My 2 cents

[AbunDiga909]

The dealers in my area just had their meeting, and they discussed which boats would be at the NYC boat show, b/c they can't fit all of them. They were going to not have the 196 be there, but then one dealer insisted it was there becasue it is still today that dealers best selling boat.... I think they may leave the 210 out over the 196, so yes, the classic oldschool 196 overtook the allmighty 210...