Death of the 196... and CC?

[jon4pres]

To me if I were buying a brand new boat (which I probably never will) a major consideration would be the dealer over brand loyalty. I believe all the major boats are pretty close in quality but if there are problems a good dealer can help you resolve is worth more than a company nameplate.
I think CC builds amazing boats but do you really think that a 210 is over 10-20k better than a Moomba LSV? You can do alot of repairs and replacing of vynal for 20k.

[SGY]

Abun, I was talking about perception. Generally, we are perceived by the worst of our actions but perceive ourselves by the best of our intentions. So, what an owner views internally as pride may be miscontrued as something negative. The more close minded we are, the more prone we are to the wrong perception.

[darrel409]

CC should value the 196 buyers because they are the 211 owners of tomorrow. 196 owners are skiers 1st and over the years wakeboarding #s have surpased the skiers. So this really hasnt been much of an issue since probably the mid 90's. In addition, 196 owners get older, married, kids...and need a bigger boat. CC wants them to buy a 206, 216, 210, 211... So the "10%" are probably going to buy what?, a larger Tige? No, they already drank the koolaid and a large percentage will remain brand loyal. How many members owned a 196 before their "wakeboard" boat? Its a pretty natural progression.
CC supplys a free pack of koolaid with each purchase. Drink the correct mixture and you're a happy, prideful nautique owner, too much and you're an arrogant a**.

[AbunDiga909]

SGY, yeah sometimes some people see brand loyalty as arrogance. But again, that is subjective. There are also a lot of people that respect other's loyalty adn won't see it as arrogance. But since its all subjective and varies from person to person I just see that as innevitable that's like saying don't do something b/c of what others may fear. It is worth showing off pride in your loyalty. If that is seen as arrogance, so be it, b/c fact is, it is loyalty and hopefully you or I could meet the person who sees it as arrogance, get to know them, and then they will learn that the FACT is its loyalty, all positive.

[SGY]

The fact is, many folks that I know and respect view CC owners as arrogant or brand snobs. This perception weakens credibility, increases the sense of unreasonable bias, and causes a negative attitude towards the brand by potential buyers/customers.

Kind of like Notre Dame football. Lots of folks hate Notre Dame because of the air of superiority.

[bkhallpass]

The fact is, many folks that I know and respect view CC owners as arrogant or brand snobs. This perception weakens credibility, increases the sense of unreasonable bias, and causes a negative attitude towards the brand by potential buyers/customers.

Kind of like Notre Dame football. Lots of folks hate Notre Dame because of the air of superiority.

This has not been my experience. If I find anyone to have unreasonable
arrogance, it is the MC owners. Bu guys always seem to have a chip
on their shoulder trying to show they are just as good as MC or CC.
Most CC guys I know love their boats, and don't have to prove they
are better to anyone. But, if pushed, they do have the quiet confidence
of knowing they can support their positions.

Besides, those who want the best will always find ways to put down
those who have the best. I wouldn't worry about what owners of
other brands think.

BKH

[SGY]

BKH, I agree with you on the MC owners. Have you read the MC Team site. Talk about arrogance. Most folks I know are either CC or Bu owners. I see the same confidence in Bu owners that you describe in CC owners--for the most part that is. I don't think there is any reason for Bu owners to be chippy any more. AFter all, Bu sells more inboards than anyone. You'd think they've earned the same quiet confidence.

I also agree with your last statement regarding those wanting the best finding ways to put down those that own the best. However, I think its more and more difficult to support the position that CC boats are clearly the best. Today's MC boats are excellent products as are Malibu boats. I think most reasonable minds would agree that the gap is closing. This doesn't mean that CC products aren't top notch and worthy of pride of ownership. It just means there are others that are as well.

[SNMike]

If someone comes across as an arrogant a$$, I'm willing to bet that's the way that person is the majority of the time. Owning an object be it a Vette, Nautique, Lear Jet, a high rise or an NFL team makes one blessed, fortunate, and darn lucky. But "better" than everyone else? I don't think so. I own a lot of nice things, so what. They sure as heck won't assure me a seat in heaven. All the material things can disappear overnight. My neighbor loves his Moomba. He should, it's his. I tell him it's a great boat. What's to be gained from telling him any different. Now that said, if someone trashes my CC, it's never happened Yellow_Flash_Colorz: , well then, let the debate begin. 8-) My point is that CC, MC, BU, or whatever brand people own, hold your head high. But keep your nose at level flight. BTW, I've never encountered arrogance from anyone on this site. Willing to bet it doesn't exist here either. PDT_002 Regards!!!!!! Mike

[bkhallpass]

SGY,

I go to a lot of events where there are multiple brands of boats.
I always, concede that MC has the most bling and is the flashiest boat.
I also concede that if I weren't buying a CC, I'd probably buy a Malibu.
I've got a brother who owns an MC, which was the best used boat
he found within his price range at the time he was looking. It's been
very good to him so far.

But what I know is that CC has always been the best or very close
to the best where it counts, wake characteristics, and drivability.
That's what I value, not flourescent cupholders, tribal graphics, or fiberglass wakeboard towers.

What I notice is that those I meet consistently compare their boats
against CCs. I once had a friend who owns a Malibu say to me, that he
loves his boat, and has a great time with it. However, when he's at
the launch ramp, he says everyone knows it when "the nautique guys
show up." The CC owners I know don't compare their boats to
anyone else. If that's arrogant, so be it.

I notice you are a lawyer as well, so I suspect we could get circular
on this all day long. Anyway, have a great weekend.

BKH

[SGY]

BKH, I can live with your last post. I agree with Mikeski as well. Nicely said on both counts.

BKH, yeah I'm an attorney. Where do you practice?

[j2nh]

CC should value the 196 buyers because they are the 211 owners of tomorrow. 196 owners are skiers 1st and over the years wakeboarding #s have surpased the skiers. So this really hasnt been much of an issue since probably the mid 90's. In addition, 196 owners get older, married, kids...and need a bigger boat. CC wants them to buy a 206, 216, 210, 211... So the "10%" are probably going to buy what?, a larger Tige? No, they already drank the koolaid and a large percentage will remain brand loyal. How many members owned a 196 before their "wakeboard" boat? Its a pretty natural progression. .

Not always. I am on my 5th inboard competition ski boat. 87 and 95 Mastercraft, 99,02,05 CC 196. I don't necessarily see myself as the exception. My kids and their friends have grown up in them, and we have never felt the need for a larger or openbow boat and certainly not a wakeboard boat. I am not and probably never will be a customer for any other model in CC's lineup. Lots of closed bows are still sold in Wisconsin (second highest number of CC dealerships in the country). They are sized nicely for the type of lakes and rivers that we have access to.

[bkhallpass]

BKH, I can live with your last post. I agree with Mikeski as well. Nicely said on both counts.

BKH, yeah I'm an attorney. Where do you practice?

I did practice in California, but I gave it up over 10 years ago.
Went into the Computer business and have never looked back.

BKH

[Edwin]

.....But what I think is more important is the image that is created ....

GMAFB...I suggest you ask you daddy, the owner and sponsor of the boat you get to use, whether the image is the important part.

[AbunDiga909]

Edwin, please, I've taken enough crap about not being the one paying for my boat. I've said this before and I'll say it again... Dad may have paid for it, so is it not mom's boat either? I don't think you paid for the house you lived in for the first 18 years, so during that time did you go home to your house or to your parents house? I don't think of the boat as my dad's boat, I think of it as the family's boat--who signed the check is not important.

And anyway, what you said makes no sense. You are talking about the economics for the customer from a customer's point of view. I was speaking of the economics for the company--two totally different things. A company is not a family and the financial status of the two connot be compared...

So does this mean since that only an adult can talk about economics to you? Because the point you are trying to make would only make sense if you believed that only parents who sign checks for boats are qualified to talk about economics in general.

Edwin, you don't know what you're talking about here with me, so please, just be quiet... thanks... sorry for the intirruption, I think this thread is very interesting its what makes this site so good I wouldn't like it to be the 3rd to be locked....

~Austin E.

EDIT: Forgot to say, I have no clue what the **** GMAFB stands for..

[gotpwr]

GMAFB = Give Me A F'n Break