build quality on my new 210

[Hollywood]

Do a handful of boats consistantly come out of the factory everyday? I doubt this is as steady as you think.

[speck]

you guys will like this. i got a call today from john givens of cc, in response to an email that i sent tues to cc. i included a link to this thread about my boat, and my business number. i was surprised to get a call at all, but here is what he said:

-there are 7 or 8 210 molds, each one is a little different, so my wave in the rubrail may be in some, but not all others

-he admitted that the vinyl was bad, and that my dealership would work with cc to make it right

-the steering wheel no excuse

-the cleats being tilted and other misc. things he chocked up to handcrafting the boat. every one a bit different. i said does nobody look at their work? does nobody measure?

-as to the pylon being off he asked where i was measuring from. i said the inner strait edge of the gunnels, like where you step on to get in the boat. i said when the guy measured did he "measure twice, cut once?" he should have measured three times.

-he said that cc does not own (i knew that) or monitor (everybody thinks they should/do) this site, but some employees of cc are members here

overall nothing happened but to say that my dealer, who he said was excellent (Pride of Muskoka) would work with cc to fix the problems. there was no insight as to why these things go on in the plant. he commented on how many of you said that you would still buy nautique again if you had to. its how they drive, the feel of the boat. when you get it in the water in the spring, these detail things will seem less important and the things you don't see will become the most important (the unseen superior construction methods)

i hope to get answers in january, when the staff at my dealership get back from christmas break and get to it again

just so you know, as far as the pdi, i insisted on picking up my boat early, now instead on the spring, although they were going to leave the travel wrap on anyway till spring, so none of these probs would have been uncovered. the boat was cleaned and inspected, windshield and tower assembled, and put on the trailer. i don't believe that they (dealership)would have insisted on new vinyl unless i would have said something.
like i said, everything on this boat is functional, nothing is "defective" things are just misaligned.

i'll let you know what happens in january
thanks for all the responses

[AbunDiga909]

Hey man, good to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel!

I think I've talked to the same guy you did, (southern accent, right?) he seemed to be a real helpful and nice guy. Anyway, glad to hear things will work out in the long run, have a good vacation..

[Rhode]

The CC customer/dealer "service" representative who is rumored to have been shown the elevator shaft, and possibly just plain shafted because his name did not rhyme with dragoon (wink), had the audacity to tell me in late September and through October that he had been unable to investigate my concerns about the '06 Flight Clips and FCT because he "only [had] two hours" to check out boats as they came off the assembly line and before they got shrink-wrapped. I was expecting a different kind of "service" than this on my fourth SAN/210 in six model years...

Speck, I note that you reported nothing from your call about the Flight Clips spacers. You must have them installed by now. How do they look? Please post a picture.

Btw, 210s now ship with the tower and windshield installed.

I accept wholeheartedly the suggestion that a lot of the griping that has been going on here about CC has a lot to do with it being too cold for many of us to ride. Nevertheless, very real issues have been raised, which need to be addressed, or else CC may not be all of our "next" boats. Indeed, CC makes a great boat, or else we all wouldn't be wasting our time here on this site. For me, anyway, I'm just doling out tough love.

Rhode

[speck]

i bought the bolts ond nuts for the clip. i will do it this weekend and post pics. yes got stainless 5/16 bolts instead on the 1/4 because i though 1/4 was too clincy. i will have to make the holes a bit bigger, and no the bolts are not countersunk, but i thought long about stainless carriage bolts from the outside in to save the boards, but no dice

[Kenw]

its how they drive, the feel of the boat. when you get it in the water in the spring, these detail things will seem less important and the things you don't see will become the most important (the unseen superior construction methods)

I can't believe he said that. With that attitude nothing will change there.
Look at the sloppy craftmanship on what you can see. Kinda makes you wonder about what you can't see.

Does CC use CNC?

[Rhode]

Kenw,

No, as arrogant as it might sound, I think it is a fair point. Speaking on behalf of my wakeboard crew who complained bitterly this fall about my junk Flight Clips/FCT combo, we'd all gladly "lap" some of our boards again if suddenly the snow was gone and we could take sets. Thankfully, my boat is not in my garage right now, where I would be constantly going out and agonizing over every detail. Scratch that. Now that I think about it, I wish my boat was in my garage right now, because then I would have the time to pick out all the stray bolts, nuts and other scrap "giblets" that CC gives you with a new boat...

Rhode

[CradGen2]

I have read every post to this inquiry. This is my 4 Nautique. I had a 81 Ski, 99 Ski, 2000 Air (Direct) and now a 05 211. I also sold CC for a dealer for about 5 years. I to agree that CC is cutting corners on this boats. My is in my garage and I am writing this while sitting in the boat looking at some of the same things. The "nautique" not in the front bow and bench set is off center and tilted. So now I am unhappy.(thanks). I will make a separate post of the major fiberglass repair my dealer just had to make. I would encourage anybody with a 211 to read. As for the rub rail heat will more then likely fix the problem.

You should make the dealer fix the repairs. They should have not let the boat go down the road. I know as a customer and from selling CC customer want there boats, but as a dealer they should have held you off from coming. The average dealer spend 8 hours getting boat ready before customers see them...

Oh and when did cc stop covering with carpet the bench set in the back. It looks like crap.

[CradGen2]

Speck

John Givens is one of the best customer service people CC has. He monitors the CC website emails. Do not be suprised that he called, he normally does within 24 hours... Jeff Warren was the same way..

Wink

[Laptom]

WinkCj.... The bench set doesn't look like crap... It looks like Mastercraft Yellow_Flash_Colorz: ...

I'm with you, that piece should be nicely covered with carpet.

[ag4ever]

It is kinda funny that CC was compaired to a high end exotic sports car.

Both are hand built.
Both cost lost more than the civilian counterparts.
Both are made for a very specific purpose.
And both have hand built diosyncrasies about them.

If you have ever seen a Farrari or a Lambo or worse yet one of the first vipers, they are terribly detailed. Sloppy joints, interiors that don't fit exactly, not symetrical, etc... Now if you had a production car that had the same fit and finish, people would be furious. I know this is not an excuss, and there are some things that are just plain inexcusable, but in my book "Hand Built = not precise". When i hear somebody say that such and such was hand built, I think, "Great, it has sloppy joints, corners were cut and things might just not be right." I am sure this is a phenominon that is of recent occurance, as 100 years ago, everything was hand built, and people generally (not always) took more pride in what they were doing.

With that said, I don't expect a hand built boat to be perfect, but there should be some things done right. A pylon off center - no way. A steering wheel off center - no way. Minor misalignments in stiching - might be ok. A warp in the hull - no way. Not symetrical hull - maybe ok, but with CNC machinary, they should be able to make a perfect mold. These items decry - NO QC is being done. Not that the QC is lax, but that NONE IS HAPPENING! This is unexcusable, especially on a $65,000 boat. These problems that I think are unexcusable are akin to a Ferrari coming out of the factory with an axle off center. I doubt they would let that happen.

Even when I purchased my boat, I admired the Malibu offerings, and the more I see about CC, the more I like Malibu. I do however love my boat, and would still consider a CC, but at the price they are selling, I doubt I would actually get another CC. They are priced over their quality level, even though I think they are the best structured tow boat made.

[SGY]

Agree with Agfever. Hand made doesn't equate to better attention to detail. I've read many times in Car & Driver and other mags how the hand made cars' interior quality doesn't hold a candle to mass produced vehicles. But how tough is it to get the coaming pads mounted correctly? There is a difference between hand made installation and sloppy installation. If I was managment at CC and saw the posting on Speck's boat I would be asking questions in my QC department. How does that boat get past QC. Maybe its an abberation or maybe its common place. I hope its not the latter. Tough love. Yep. But when you bodly proclaim your boat is the best, you better be ready for some fallout when you don't measure up.

[surroundsound64]

But when you bodly proclaim your boat is the best, you better be ready for some fallout when you don't measure up.

Yep!!! PDT_001

[ozark_skier]

I've found this thread very interesting. I've had similar discussions with my father in law who paid less money than I did for his bigger and fancier I/O boat. I'm am not defending CC's sloppiness even for a minute. My 2004 196 has some fit and finish issues, but definitely less of them since it does not have all the creature comforts. It didn't even have cleats originally. My father in law can't understand how I spent so much money for a boat when the carpet under the bow doesn't fit quite right and it only seats six (only three in reality). The answer is I wanted to ski behind it. The fit on his carpet is better than mine but so what. His upholstery is nicer than mine, but again so what. His boat throws a terrible ski wake and is fat and slow. I purchased a CC because it is the best ski boat. I like the Ferrari comparison above. Noone purchases a Ferrari because it is comfortable or can carry the whole crew all day. It's unfortunate for that kind of cash you can't have your cake and eat it too, but every mastercraft or Malibu I've been in was no where near as solid as the CC. The wakes did not compare either (although this goes back and forth as new hulls are engineered). If you want the best fit and finish and creature comforts at a "reasonable" price you're probably better served with a high quality I/O but there goes your water sports performance (although I can do all the wakeboarding I care to do behind my father in law's I/O). The only way to make CC clean up their act with the fit and finish is if people stop buying the boat (that's what it took at GM). As long as I ski I will not own an I/O and I believe CC has the best hull and engine package available. It tracks and handles rough water better than the others I've driven.

Now on the flip side, those of you with the problems listed in previous posts, please drive them to do better. The sloppiness pictured in this thread is unexcusable, but I just wanted to explain why some of us still like CC even when they are lazy.

[jon4pres]

I still think that QC should be better on a handmade item because it is being inspected all of the time. I would think that if thy guy who installed the pylon wrong didnt notice than the guy installing the sundeck would notice it was off. If he didnt notice than the person installing the back of the back seat would notice. If he didnt notice the people who do the final inspection would notice.
Are there any current inboard or Vdrive manufacturers that mass produce their boats? My guess is that they are all hand made but it is just a guess.

You know I would expect installation problems like this from a price point boat like Moomba. But why would you pay twice as much for a Nautique if you are not getting better quality.