build quality on my new 210

[MinnesotaNautique]

minnesota, you got a problem?

Internet tough guy eh? I love it!

[bkhallpass]

I will not and cannot, based on personal experience, buy into the argument that because Nautiques are "hand made" this excuses sloppy or imprecise assembly at the factory. I have had the good fortune of owning 2 Porsche 911's, a 95 and an 01 that I purchased new. Essentially this model from Porsche is still hand made. In over 10 years of ownership and 70,000 miles I never had ONE warranty claim. The workmanship was impeccable. Seams on doors, fit and finish were second to none. If Porsche can engineer, design and build a $70K car with outstanding workmanship then I see no reason that CC cannot do the same with a $60K boat.

I'm all for quality, responsibility, accountability, but you are comparing
apples and oranges. Porche is a publicly traded company, with over $1.2B euro in revenues, over $9B euro in assets, and makes about 35,000 cars per year. Correct is a small privately owned business, I estimate
$100 to $150M revenue, 200 boats per year, and probably less than 200 employees. The only thing these two products have in common is that they cost about the same.

BKH

[j2nh]

The similarity is that they both have people hand assembling their product. For Porsche that only applies to the 911. Porsche is a small player in a large market and goes after a niche crowd as does Nautique. Both rely on company history, repeat sales, and intense customer loyalty. Nautique needs to pay close attention to the product that leaves the factory and is delivered to the customer if it is to keep its place in the market. Loose the perception of value and you loose customers. Superior raw matierials won't make up for crooked seams, off centered steering wheels, or otherwise inattentive assembly.

My 05 196. Loose insulation under the box, lots of it. Engine covered in fiberglass dust. Oil leak. Oil quick drain hose laying against the serpintine belt so that it wore a hole in it and a leaky valve for the trick tank.

[SGY]

Without weighing in on the CC vs. Porsche debate, I agree with J2hn that:

"Nautique needs to pay close attention to the product that leaves the factory and is delivered to the customer if it is to keep its place in the market. Loose the perception of value and you loose customers. Superior raw matierials won't make up for crooked seams, off centered steering wheels, or otherwise inattentive assembly."

Nicely said. This is true for any company that manufactures a product. I continue to buy CC products not only because of the solidness of the boat's performance, but also because of the attention to detail. Like most, pride of ownership means a great deal to me. Otherwise, I would have bought an Infinity--great ski boat but less than desirable interior appointments.

[jon4pres]

I dont think it matters if we compare CC to any other company they still need to put out a top notch boat for the price and it seems unfair to make the customer find all of the mistakes, then take their boat back and wait a couple of weeks for it to be right. That is just a bad way to do business.
For CC to continue to grow and thrive they are going to have to produce the highest quality product that they can or lower the price to make up for less than perfect quality.

[Laptom]

When I first said that Handmade is no excuses for sloppy work and made the comparison for car/boat/furniture, I didn't ment a Porsche/Ferrari or a Lambo... These cars are still machine made (some more then another, Enzo is more handmade then a 360, or a GT is more handmade while the 911 is almost complete machine made). A handmade car like Rolls Royce, TVR, Pagonda, Spyker are perfect when they leave the factory. And when they aren't, you get 100% backup, and these aren't necessery expensive cars (you can get a TVR for $40k).
I believe the QC is lacking, when I see the boat of Speck. This is a boat already made for 10years, things like an off centre Pilon, steering may not happen. And if they happen, QC should see these problems and should solve before shipping the boat to the dealer/customer.

Btw, don't look for Q on a Ferrari. You pay for a car that you know it isn't perfect (the drive is nonetheless). A pay for a Nautique because I expect it's perfect.

[gotwake]

WOW – This thread has gone in so many directions.

First - SPECK. Sorry you got you’re boat that way. I really blame the dealer for letting you take delivery of the boat in that condition. You gave the DEALER you’re money and it wasn’t up to your standards. Shame on them. They should work with CC and the process should be transparent to you. My experience – it’ll be made right.

Next up - comparing to the auto industry?
C’mon. Have you seen how dealers get some of their cars in? They aren’t all perfect by any means. They can also spread the cost of R&D over a model year due to the volume sold. Boat companies have to spread it over a few years. Hand-made? No one should let sloppy workmanship go out the door – on any product.

“Get what you pay for topic”
If I bought a Moomba and the pylon wasn’t right, am I being led to believe that I shouldn’t say anything? Accept it - I get what I pay for? BS! I’m sure that a Moomba dealer is telling their customer that they are getting a quality product. I’d want it right now matter the product. I would expect that a higher dollar product, bragging about quality does live up to their promise, and that there are fewer issues and that the product is more reliable.

CC not listening to dealers on Quality:
Each time you go back it does affect your buying experience and affect your next purchase. Are these issues due to new people, new management, or new model of boat? I really don't care. I paid for a boat and I expect to get what I pay for. CC has to realize that the QC process doesn’t end at the factory shipping door, or there won’t be a CC. When upset with the quality of my companies’ product, I took some of our factory workers to a customer site and attend an installation - what an eye opener!

If the dealerships are charging the factory for warranty work, I’m quite sure that theses issues will be resolved. I do know I have had a lot fewer problems than my buddies have had as I have not had a hull split, motor seize, or some of the other horror stories that I have seen with some other boat companies. Thankfully most issues here are fit and finish.
But if CC doesn’t get their quality award, which I know some other boat companies are desperately trying to obtain, well, you can bet that it’ll be more updating for the homepage

CC overpriced?
Yep! An antiquated factory, the fact that they use distributorships, materials used, high warranty claims, are all factors. We expect our boats to be correct for the premium that we are paying. But, bottom line, Correct Craft builds an excellent product. Overall, their dealerships are among the best in the industry, or for that matter any industry. The materials they use are excellent and they are solid, dependable boats. We do tend to hold them to a different standard.

Do I think I got the best value for my money?
Yep! And my dealer plays a huge role in that. I do love driving my boat.

CC reading this thread?
Perhaps forums of these types do have their place within a company. It would be interesting reading this type of information about my companies’ product. Good and bad tool I suppose. But I’m sure CC is taking all this in, and perhaps these threads have cost some dealerships some boat sales already. That would be a shame, for some people will have missed out on a great boat, company, and dealership that have always satisfied me.


::::::::: Comes off soapbox :::::::::::::

[bkhallpass]

Agree with gist from all the above. High quality is good, period. To the extent or
CC can/will provide the utmost of quality, it is good for them, and good for their
customers. High expectations in the market generally push companies to meet
those expectations. It is certainly possible for CC to meet and exceed the
quality expectations of a "911" or any other high quality item. My only point was
that if you set your expectation that a $60K boat equals a $60K car, you will more
than likely be disappointed for a host of real and demonstrable reasons. It is
an apples to oranges comparison.

BTW, I meant to say CC produces about 2000 boats, not 200.

BKH

[Edwin]

Great thread...

[patoloco]

I think the boat companies have worked themselves into a corner...when you basically go overboard on marketing and, in not so many words, say your boat will be perfect ...and then raise your boat prices into the 60K range, for a pure luxury item. Well, the consumers are going to expect it to be right

Just take 10K of your 40K profit and have one person spend 2 hours inspecting each boat...espcially for the obvious stuff that the consumer will spot in 10 seconds...fix the boat, then fix the process so it doesnt happen again. The dealers shouldn't be put in a position of fixing factory mistakes.

[bkhallpass]

Just take 10K of your 40K profit .

Do you honestly believe that there is 40K profit being made
here? The numbers do not add up.

If a boat costs 60K at the dealer:
$1500 to $2500 went to the trailer vendor
15 to 20% is probably reasonable dealer margin
5 to 15% is probably reasonable distributor margin.

Thus, that 60K boat probably went out the door from
CC to the market at less than 40K. So where is the 40K
profit?

Again, I'm all for quality, and I realize that the fact a boat
cost $60K is significant for all who buy them, and very significant
for some who buy them. But, price alone has little to do
with quality or profitability.

BKH

[ag4ever]

Ah, but price does have a lot to do with quality and profitability.

Do you think there is the same quality in a bayliner? They cost much less, and as just about everyone in the industry has said, they are a great inentry level boat, but they are not a quality boat. Alos the dealer, distributor and manufacturer don't make near as much on each one as CC does.

Using your numbers, a $15,000 20' bayliner would have about $2,700 dealer margin, and $1,230 distributor margin. This leaves $11,700 for production and factory cost + trailer ($1,000).

Now a SAN. $65,000. Nice trailer runs $4,000. $61,000 left. Dealer margin $11,700. Distributor $4,930. Manufaturing and Mfg margin 44,370.

Now you are telling me there is $32,670 difference in production cost between a Bayliner and a SAN. I doubt there is $40,000 profit, but I am willing to bet the factory sees about $20,000 to $30,000 per boat after production costs.

Now lets say a QC person has a salaray of $60,000 a year. CC produces 2,000 boats a year. They work 5 days a week. Have typical holidays. 250 work days a year. That is eight boats a day. So one QC person looks at each boat for about an hour. At a cost of $30 per boat (before benifits).

Poor QC is inexcusable!!!!!

[gotwake]

They aren't making 20-30k on a boat if you're paying a QC person 60k a year -

[83sn2001]

I have been reading some of the replies in this thread and had to jump in. There is no way you can excuse the sloppy work on this boat. I would probably tow it to Orlando myself and want to talk to one of the Melloons myself. I work in the manufacturing business (Freightliner Trucks) and know for a fact that you are blaming the wrong guy if you blame the QC guy. The pylon not being centered would not be noticed if it weren't for the latch on the engine hatch. The assembler that installed it knew it was off because it does not attach to the deck it attaches to the engine frame. I'm thinking he slides the pylon through the opening and it does not align with the holes in the engine frame so something is adapted somewhere, whether it be the bolt holes or the deck has some glass work done to it. The vinyl is just made wrong. The steering wheel is probably the dash pod not centered. The point is you can't inspect quality into a product it has to be built into it. If you are paying for the most expensive ski boat on the market, there is no reason not expect things to line up. We are not talking minor flaws in the gel coat that you see under bright lights. And finally as far as hand built goes, Yes there will be mistakes made because we are human,but we also have a conscience which a machine does not. We catch our mistakes and we correct them. Either the worker did not notify anyone,did not care, or he was told to let it go. The answer to that is in how they handle making your boat right. That is going to tell what kind of company they are. Just my thoughts.

[bkhallpass]

Ah, but price does have a lot to do with quality and profitability.

Do you think there is the same quality in a bayliner? They cost much less, and as just about everyone in the industry has said, they are a great inentry level boat, but they are not a quality boat. Alos the dealer, distributor and manufacturer don't make near as much on each one as CC does.

Using your numbers, a $15,000 20' bayliner would have about $2,700 dealer margin, and $1,230 distributor margin. This leaves $11,700 for production and factory cost + trailer ($1,000).

Now a SAN. $65,000. Nice trailer runs $4,000. $61,000 left. Dealer margin $11,700. Distributor $4,930. Manufaturing and Mfg margin 44,370.

Now you are telling me there is $32,670 difference in production cost between a Bayliner and a SAN. I doubt there is $40,000 profit, but I am willing to bet the factory sees about $20,000 to $30,000 per boat after production costs.

Now lets say a QC person has a salaray of $60,000 a year. CC produces 2,000 boats a year. They work 5 days a week. Have typical holidays. 250 work days a year. That is eight boats a day. So one QC person looks at each boat for about an hour. At a cost of $30 per boat (before benifits).

Poor QC is inexcusable!!!!!

Margin and production costs are different on a bayliner because of
quantities and production methods.

BKH