2015 engine options G21 and G23

[mm]

I haven't decided which boat I will be purchasing yet but I think either will fit my needs. My question is more about will the base engines (343 for 21) and (409 for 23) be enough? I plan on running factory ballast and maybe 1 sack in the floor if no passengers. I have seen videos of both taking off with factory ballast and they seem to jump our of the water pretty quick with the 2:1 ratio. And I know there is an advertised different between the 409 and 450 but I would be surprised if it is really that much considering the only difference is the tune and cam(?) anyways I think a little over factory will be plenty as when I rode it before it was massive and more than enough for me (lower advanced rider with a couple mobes and 540s).

[josemolino]

I have used the 343 (in a 220) and the 409 in my new G21.
The 409 runs perfect on the G21 with full factory ballast + passengers+ some extra if needed. It does not need any extra power. However I am not sure about the 343. My guess is that it can be tight. The 343 could not handle my 220 with piggy back sacks + people (but of course it was a different ratio)
Another thing that helped me decide was the water close circuit in the 409.

[GCSuper]

You never regret too much power, but you'll always regret not enough. As the old saying goes, horsepower costs money, how much horsepower you want ?

[xrichard]

You might regret spending a bunch of money unnecessarily. In my 210 with 343, it takes a +/-20 seconds to plane with 2800-3000lbs of ballast, three in the boat and one rider. But comparing that to the G series with the new transmission and ncrs is comparing apples to oranges.

G21 with a 409, factory ballast and +/- 500 add'l pounds, three in the boat and one rider...it jumps on plane very quickly. I haven't timed it, but I'm sure under 10 seconds to riding speed. The G23 weighs only 200lbs more. So, unless you're running at meaningful altitude or running massive amounts above stock ballast, my take is the 409 is plenty for either boat the way most will use them. But at altitude or huge ballast, you'll probably want the biggest motor.

PCM doesn't publish torque curves for their motors, but GM does. Based on that info, one can make a pretty good guess that the torque curves for the 343 and 409 are similar to about 3500-4000rpm. I haven't been in a G series with a 343, but Jeff and others who have tell me it's more than adequate.

Nevertheless, when I was looking, I decided to go with the 409 for either the 21 or 23. Even though it seems the 343 would be adequate on the 21, the upgrade cost isn't that much and I figured it might help when I take the boat to 2000-2500 feet.

[JoeA]

I have some thoughts on this.

You get one chance to buy the right engine and quite honestly engine upgrades from Nautique are quite reasonable when compared to Mastercraft and Malibu. I also consider resale value and make sure i have the tight options at the time of purchase. When you get ready to sell nobody is going to want a G21 with the 343. Get the the 409 at a minimum

[vision]

I have some thoughts on this.

You get one chance to buy the right engine and quite honestly engine upgrades from Nautique are quite reasonable when compared to Mastercraft and Malibu. I also consider resale value and make sure i have the tight options at the time of purchase. When you get ready to sell nobody is going to want a G21 with the 343. Get the the 409 at a minimum

Agreed.

[scottb7]

I was actually pricing a boat and I can see why people are torn on 343 vs 409 on the g21. It is what, about $7k msrp upgrade. I so agree for resale it would be soooo nice. But is there anyone that actually had a bad experience with the 343 with the 2:1 drive ratio?

On the one hand the upgrade to 409 might be a reasonable % of the total cost of the boat. On the other hand, another $7 msrp might be the difference of getting a g21 or keeping the 2008 210.

I would also add that I was just checking out the great n3 boatwork videos and they are saying in the video that the 343 is "money" and that is what they order quite often. That would be a ton of risk. I am doubting they would be wrong as their customers would be complaining, and they know people will add extra ballast. I think it might be fair to conclude it is gonna be only a resale issue.

Remind me...what year did 2:1 ratio come out on g21?

[JoeA]

2:1 ratio tranny came out in 2014.

I still believe any infomred buyer will walk away from the 343 when they can buy the 409 or 450 on down the road when you sell the boat for about the same price. You are not going to get the $7K back at time of sale but it will be more pleasurable to drive, especially if you plan to surf and add ballast. It may add a little bit of value on down the road but not much.

Have these conversationsd with your dealer. It ought to become a negotiating point for you so have fun with it. In the end you'll love the G.

[xrichard]

Down the road, I agree that the 409 will sell for more than the 343....but $7k more? Or even $6k? I think it will depend on how the 343 actually works in the boat. If it doesn't have a reputation for being a dog in the G21, then an informed buyer would not be willing to pay much more for it. It would be like a nice stereo: it might add a little bit of value or make the boat slightly easier to sell, but other things will completely dominate its influence and the addition to resale value will be a fraction of its cost.

Having said that, when I was looking, I was going to pay for the 409 in the G21 simply because the 343 hasn't yet proven itself in the that boat. However, everyone I've talked with who has actual experience with that combination says the 343 is good to go (...though that's only a few reports...including Jeff here at PN).

[scottb7]

I did used to agree with the above. But you know, now that I am actually thinking about buying a g21, I might be changing my mind. One could make the argument that the 2:1 drive ratio is a "disruptive innovation". Such that there is now a new market (g21 and g23) for the 343 engine. It might just take time for the proof to come out and sellers to get on board. N3 seems to be on board. And it is a double edged sword for the sellers. On the one hand they make more $ if they get people to upgrade motors. On the other hand they make more money if they sell more boats.

Only time will tell if the real world tests prove it out, and if the buyers will come around.

I guess I am stupid. I should just go test a g21 with a 343. In that I bet on the used market I can get people to come out and test my used boat with a 343.

1. A disruptive innovation is an innovation that helps create a new market and value network, and eventually disrupts an existing market and value network (over a few years or decades), displacing an earlier technology.

Other things to consider:
a. Down the road there will probably be new props that could - like new props have done in the past - take advantage of the lower horse power motor to create less power at expense of top speed (of course they will be $1k)
b. For me there has always been a trade off on the amount of water ballast needed depending on the number of crew on the boat. In other words, if the 343 won't work with boat totally full of people and full water ballast, then I probably don't need quite that much water. Come on we all know the wake is going to be huge with just stock 5200 lbs dry weight and full crew. (8 guys x 180 = 1440)

[JoeA]

scottb,

Have some fun with this and go test drive a G21 with the 343 loaded up. Bring a few people or have them add a few ballast bags to simulate what you would experience this Summer. A test like that ought to help you decide. These boats aren't cheap so test it out and see what works best for you.

[xrichard]

I'd suggest as JoeA: test a boat with a 343 as you plan to use it (...plus a some extra weight and a full tank of gas). But don't make any decision based on new props, etc, that may or may not become available. Based on the information I have, the 343 will easily do the job. Still, I get there's a question mark around it because it's not currently a popular/common choice.