Serious Thoughts About Safe Towing - G-Series Nautiques

[bird_dog0347]

I know this is an older thread and I had posted elsewhere about my towing experience but I'll add it in here in case someone finds this in a search.

Spring of 2021 we traded the old boat, a 2007 Supra 24 SSV with tandem trailer, for the 2021 G23 Paragon with triple trailer. Most of the time the boat lives on a lift in a private slip at lake Texoma, but when the water level gets more than 1' low or over the winter we keep it in the storage unit about 10 minutes away from the ramp. I really do not tow much, but the ramp and area around the lake can get fairly hilly and going up/down the hill to get to the ramp is easily 400 ft of elevation change over 1/4 mile or less with up to 11% grade max averaging about 6% as indicated by my truck. If I need to tow it to the dealer that's about a 70 mile trip one way.

Back in late summer 2020 I had bought a new GMC Sierra 1500 x31 that was rated for a maximum tow capacity of 9300#, which was well over what the Supra weighed so I figured I was in good shape, especially as little as I would tow that boat. Then we ordered the Paragon and after towing it from the dealer to the lake and dealing with the soft suspension on the truck with that much weight on the trailer, especially around the hills at the lake, I knew it was time to start looking to upgrade the truck to a 2500. The problem was now that with the chip shortage finding a well equipped 2500 was a pain, especially with dealers trying to sneak in market adjustments (manager) after the sales guy and I had it all worked out... that happened with 3 different dealers and I walked on all three of those deals. I finally found an honest dealer who wasn't charging a market adjustment, gave a fair price for my trade and sold me my new (to me) truck at a fair price as well. I ended up with a lightly used Chevy 2500 HD LTZ fully loaded with the diesel and 4wd.

First time towing the boat with it was so much nicer, especially on the hills around the lake. Now I have no problems taking the boat on trips to other lakes farther away, like for a vacation as well. I know my 1500 was rated to tow up to 9300#, but honestly anything over about 70% of the rating is just not fun to tow and is an indicator that you need to upgrade your truck.

[shag]

Like stated above, I feel a 1/2 ton truck is too small to 'comfortably' tow a boat and trailer that heavy. Will it? of course - but again as mentioned, stopping the behemoth is a significant chore - even with trailer brakes. Manufactures somehow craftily get these higher tow ratings but the engineers must be really pushing it. On a 3/4 or 1 ton, the brake rotors and calipers are bigger (sometimes significantly) and the diesel torque is great.

[jjackkrash]

From what I can find, the payload rating seems quite low on the truck around ~1300lbs with a tow rating of ~11000lbs. What would I need to add or make it as safe as possible or best to avoid considering this truck (no rush here as I may wait a year or two and definitely considering other options)?

Anything you add to the truck is going to weigh something and take away from the available payload capacity, pound for pound. There is nothing you can add to the truck that will change the sticker or the payload rating. It is what it is from the factory. I can also tell you that I have a close relative who unloads these boats off the big rigs at the dealership and sometimes delivers them to the end customer, and after towing one across town with a 1/2 ton once, he won't hook one up to a half ton to do anything other than tow it across the yard.

Others may have a different tolerance for white knuckles and the application of bandaids to prevent sagging (which is not the only problem caused by dropping 1000 pounds on the tail end hitch of a 1/2 ton), but if you are starting from scratch and not stuck with a truck, I can't see any good reason to buy an insufficient truck when you have a choice to get the right one for the job. IMO.

[mattyjman]

Reviving this thread. I've read through it all. First off, appreciate you all for raising awareness to this. Second, I have a few questions:
- one of the posts above indicated lower overall tongue weight due tot triple axle trailer. I never saw a follow up if that somehow relieves the need for a WDH where the tow vehicle limit is below the overall trailer and boat weight?
- Has there been any changes over the last couple of years where a WDH is possible and not discouraged on these trailers?

I have a 2021 GMC Denalli 1500 Diesel that I bought explicitly for the purpose of towing boat/travel trailer - and made that decision without knowing how manufacturers are creating the total towing capacity (thanks to this thread I now understand). With that said, we're close to locking down a '17 G23 and would love to not have to get a new truck due to the weight. What are my options?

We plan to slip this, so sinking a ton of money into a new truck or other misc things seems like something we'd really like to avoid if we can, considering our only real towing might take place occassionally when we want to go visit some other lakes in the surrounding area/states. Any thoughts/suggestions?

[shag]

Matty, I would think you will be ok. That said, as you've probably read, stopping is the big thing. The Denali 1500 is a stable platform, just not as significant as a 2500. Dry weight for a G23 I believe is just over 6000#, add full fuel for another 500#, maybe 500# gear and etc, then I would guess a trailer is around 2000#, so you are close to the rated towing for that truck. (I believe its rated 8800-9000#?). Maybe wait to fuel up when you get to where you will be boating, and put gear in the truck bed could help... Just my .02

[greggmck]

I think the Denali has a towing capacity of over 9,000lbs. While that is probably at the limit for the G23 I would have no problem towing a G23 over generally flat terrain if my needs were for the occasional tow to and from the dealer for regular maintenance. In 9 years of owing 8 G23 / Paragons I have NEVER seen a WDH used at the ramp. I would be more concerned with getting a triple axle trailer with Electric over Hydraulic brakes if towing with a loaded G23 over any distance (on flat roads). When towing with such trailer the truck / boat stops in a MUCH shorter distance. The triple does reduce tongue weight when towed with a level trailer compared to a dual-axle which will result in a more level tow vehicle.

On the other hand if I were towing through the mountains I would want a much more substantial tow vehicle. In my opinion, as long as the tow vehicle has a weight limit that meets or exceeds the towed boat, the margin of safety has more to do with the driver and how fast/safe they drive compared to getting a tow vehicle with a gazillion lbs of towing capacity as some suggest and then coming home from the lake after a six pack of beer...

[mattyjman]

I think the Denali has a towing capacity of over 9,000lbs.

It's 7k without a WDH. Appreciate your thoughts on the matter! I think I'd be ok with around town towing as well, and I'm less concerned about that. However, here located in Dallas, we have interest in heading down to Austin (3.5 hours) to Lake Travis, up to Lake Texoma (1.5 hours), or even up to CO for a longer trip. I certainly don't want to be white knuckling it to CO and I think an improved tow capacity truck makes sense there, but maybe the others I'll be ok with. I don't mind upgrading the truck, but only really want to do it if it's necessary for the hauling described here.

[greggmck]

At a 7K lb limit for towing I would not tow a G23 at all. You have a legal liability should an accident occur. It's just not worth it.

[shag]

It's 7k without a WDH. Appreciate your thoughts on the matter! I think I'd be ok with around town towing as well, and I'm less concerned about that. However, here located in Dallas, we have interest in heading down to Austin (3.5 hours) to Lake Travis, up to Lake Texoma (1.5 hours), or even up to CO for a longer trip. I certainly don't want to be white knuckling it to CO and I think an improved tow capacity truck makes sense there, but maybe the others I'll be ok with. I don't mind upgrading the truck, but only really want to do it if it's necessary for the hauling described here.

I didn't know that it was only 7000# without a WDH..

[bird_dog0347]

I was in a similar situation about 1.5 years ago. I had a 2020 GMC Sierra 1500, 4wd, etc. and it was rated max towing at 9300# but that was with a WDH. I'm also in DFW so I know it's pretty flat around here. With my old boat (2007 Supra 24ssv) the truck was just fine to tow it as I think the whole setup was under 6k loaded on the trailer with gear. Once we upgraded to the Paragon (7200# dry) and the triple axle trailer I only towed it a couple of times from Buxton up to Texoma where we keep it. Even though we only tow it a couple of times a year it was not a fun experience and I traded the truck for a 2020 2500HD that makes towing it a breeze.

[mattyjman]

EDIT: Thanks all, pretty clear what I need to do here now. Appreciate all the feedback.

[bird_dog0347]

As others have said, and as I personally have done before... you absolutely can do it, you just won't enjoy it and would be 100% at fault if there was an accident and you were overweight (unless you jump through the hoops GMC requires).

If you do choose to trade in the truck for a larger one, stay far away from McKinney Buick GMC and any Shottenkirk dealership as they are horrible to deal with and absolute liars.

[SANonTellico]

Manufacturers consider lots of variables when they assign a vehicles towing limits. Certainly, brakes and suspension are a major consideration but another important factor is overheating. The vehicles are tested in extreme climates, such as in a desert going up a steep grade to check if the engine or transmission is going to overheat. If you have a small engine, no heavy duty engine and transmission cooling and high gear ratio axles, the towing capacity will be low due to overheating, not necessarily because of the brakes and suspension. Simply adding the heavy duty cooling or choosing lower gear ratio axles can significantly increase rated towing capacity.

Certainly, exceeding the limits of the brakes and suspension is a safety issue and can be dangerous - don’t do it! Exceeding the rated capacity that was established based of overheating is less of a concern, especially if you’re not in the desert going up a mountain.

Also, being over your towing capacity does not automatically make you at fault if you’re in an accident. If someone runs a red light and T-Bones you, being overweight is not relevant. To be at fault, the accident would have to have been caused by your inability to stop and it was due to you exceeding the limits of your brakes and suspension.