Serious Thoughts About Safe Towing - G-Series Nautiques

[Jfuller]

I took your collective advice on this thread because I towed my 2015 G23 from Upstate NY to Denver last week. I purchased the 10000 # weight distribution hitch for my suburban and it made a huge difference even with my air ride suspension in the suburban already. I did not weigh my trailer etc, but I figured I had around 8000 # the whole 1600 miles. One thing I did experience though with bow mounted ladders on my Phoenix trailer is that the equalizer bar will rub on the bottom rung of the ladder on sharp curves etc. not to much of a nuisance, but I may cut the rung off at some point. Also, I did notice that my surge brakes did not set up as quickly as they would without the weigh distribution hitch on there, but they would when truck braked a bit harder as info....I am a lot more comfortable towing with the equalizer set up.

[c640947]

I took your collective advice on this thread because I towed my 2015 G23 from Upstate NY to Denver last week. I purchased the 10000 # weight distribution hitch for my suburban and it made a huge difference even with my air ride suspension in the suburban already. I did not weigh my trailer etc, but I figured I had around 8000 # the whole 1600 miles. One thing I did experience though with bow mounted ladders on my Phoenix trailer is that the equalizer bar will rub on the bottom rung of the ladder on sharp curves etc. not to much of a nuisance, but I may cut the rung off at some point. Also, I did notice that my surge brakes did not set up as quickly as they would without the weigh distribution hitch on there, but they would when truck braked a bit harder as info....I am a lot more comfortable towing with the equalizer set up.

Did you have a suburban 1500 or 2500?

I am looking to make a vehicle upgrade before my annual trip from Houston, TX to North Carolina (1000 miles) next summer (wife needs to replace LR4.) I need an SUV to haul the wife / kids that can also handle the G23. Of course a suburban 2500 (discontinued 2013) or equiv GMC would work, as would Excurision (even older to get what I need) but I am looking at something slightly less capable in the the 2016 Toyota Land Cruiser. It uses the new SAE J2807 standard and says it is rated for 8,500 lbs. Plenty of trailering goodies come stock on this thing. I know the G as Jeff weighed it is slightly over that, but I would tow on an empty tank of gas, have no lead (all extra bag ballast) so it gets me within the limit (considering someone else scaled it at 8200 lbs but I forgot if they had lead, I am probably close to 8,000-8,200 since no fuel no lead.) However I agree with wanting a 10% buffer and am not quite there.

So here's my question. If stock out of the box using a new standard we all trust it is near the limit, if I improve the tow vehicle would the effective limit likely increase by some amount? For instance I am looking at installing / using:
-Load distribution hitch as previously discussed
-Brake controller kit (https://www.etrailer.com/bc-2013_Toy...+factory+7-Way)
-larger brakes to increase stopping power
-increase suspension (one or combination):
-Timbren suspension helpers (https://www.etrailer.com/Vehicle-Sus...eid=2015304484)
-new shocks / coils
-air bags
-improvement to engine power (it has a gas 5.7 liter which I think will make towing tough)
-rechip it
-cold air intake

So trolling camper forums etc these things seem to be things that improve towing abilities. I am taking that to mean they increase the effective towing capability such that if you are within the limit legally, adding some or all of these would give you the extra safety buffer one wants to feel comfortable with.


I am just considering the thing that makes the most sense for my situation, with safety a concern, BEFORE i make a purchase. Sure an F650 duramax ish monster works but I am trying to see if I can make a family friendly SUV work. Last year I paid someone else to tow it and can always do that but I'm trying to figure out if i can safely tow it myself to give myself more flexibility once I get there.

Thanks for any thoughts anyone has on tow vehicle improvements (or if I am missing something obvious for my situation.)

Thanks.

Andrew

[JV92]

Did you have a suburban 1500 or 2500?

I am looking to make a vehicle upgrade before my annual trip from Houston, TX to North Carolina (1000 miles) next summer (wife needs to replace LR4.) I need an SUV to haul the wife / kids that can also handle the G23. Of course a suburban 2500 (discontinued 2013) or equiv GMC would work, as would Excurision (even older to get what I need) but I am looking at something slightly less capable in the the 2016 Toyota Land Cruiser. It uses the new SAE J2807 standard and says it is rated for 8,500 lbs. Plenty of trailering goodies come stock on this thing. I know the G as Jeff weighed it is slightly over that, but I would tow on an empty tank of gas, have no lead (all extra bag ballast) so it gets me within the limit (considering someone else scaled it at 8200 lbs but I forgot if they had lead, I am probably close to 8,000-8,200 since no fuel no lead.) However I agree with wanting a 10% buffer and am not quite there.

So here's my question. If stock out of the box using a new standard we all trust it is near the limit, if I improve the tow vehicle would the effective limit likely increase by some amount? For instance I am looking at installing / using:
-Load distribution hitch as previously discussed
-Brake controller kit (https://www.etrailer.com/bc-2013_Toy...+factory+7-Way)
-larger brakes to increase stopping power
-increase suspension (one or combination):
-Timbren suspension helpers (https://www.etrailer.com/Vehicle-Sus...eid=2015304484)
-new shocks / coils
-air bags
-improvement to engine power (it has a gas 5.7 liter which I think will make towing tough)
-rechip it
-cold air intake

So trolling camper forums etc these things seem to be things that improve towing abilities. I am taking that to mean they increase the effective towing capability such that if you are within the limit legally, adding some or all of these would give you the extra safety buffer one wants to feel comfortable with.


I am just considering the thing that makes the most sense for my situation, with safety a concern, BEFORE i make a purchase. Sure an F650 duramax ish monster works but I am trying to see if I can make a family friendly SUV work. Last year I paid someone else to tow it and can always do that but I'm trying to figure out if i can safely tow it myself to give myself more flexibility once I get there.

Thanks for any thoughts anyone has on tow vehicle improvements (or if I am missing something obvious for my situation.)

Thanks.

Andrew

Hi Mate,

Just thought I'd chime in on the concerns surrounding a tow vehicle. I ordered my new boat with the intent on towing with my Jeep (i've only got on order a 230 not a G23) but I have since got cold feet and have simultaneously placed on order a 2016 Land Cruiser (Called Sahara here, I think you guys only get the one model based somewhat on the ZX in Japan and the middle east?)
The Land Cruiser here in Australia is regarded as the tow vehicle of choice for everyone from horse float to wake boats. A huge majority of G23 owners use the Land Cruiser to tow with. American style pick up trucks are far and few between especially again now that our Aussie dollar has returned back down to a normal level.

The biggest difference would have to be that we get a 4.5 Litre Twin Turbo V8 Diesel variant with the 5.7 Litre petrol reserved for the Lexus LX570 in Australia. So the diesel would get better towing performance than a petrol although the petrol is tuned with a decent chunk of torque at low rpm.
One difference also is that there sold here with a 3500kg tow capacity (7700lbs) so alot of G23 owners would be very close to there capacity but have no dramas at all. Any vehicle that fails at the limit of there capacity should simply not have a capacity that high.
Toyota's have vastly improved there braking over time I think its stated a fully loaded Land Cruiser will pull up in 45 meters from 100km/h. So with a good brake controller and electric hydraulic brake system on the trailer braking shouldn't be an issue at all. I cant recommend a Red Arc Tow Pro enough. Far more subtle than the traditional setup with easy to use features. http://www.redarc.com.au/products/product/tow-pro/

The biggest thing with using a WDH would be that you have the scenario of taking to much weight from the rear of the car when using one with a relatively light ball weight with a tandem axle trailer. We weighed a G23 on Boat Mate trailers along with a 230 and was surprised how light they actually where. A land cruiser actually takes about 180kgs on the ball to get the car running level to begin with and a G is pretty close to that.

I do intend up upgrading my suspension also front and rear as once Bull bar and a few other accesories are fitted with stock suspension the car drops at the front by about 10 mm although it would further balance out for towing purposes.

A big plus for chipping and improvements to the air intake though!

[MaineMan]

great contribution. . here's some info on weight dist. hitches here to add info for members. http://www.etrailer.com/faq-weightdistribution.aspx

Agree -- etrailer is a terrific resource. I just towed my 2000 Sport Nautique from Maine to Florida (4600 lb loaded) with my Toyota Highlander (5000 pound towing capacity). Since I was pushing the limits of my Highlander and did not want to buy a truck, I invested in a weight-distribution and sway control system (from etrailer) and I was very pleased with the results. Towed 65 MPH with comfort and ease and no sway whatsoever, not even when big trucks blew by me.

I also bought a bathroom scale that measures up to 700 lbs to make sure I knew my tongue weight (see Amazon).

[Tallredrider]

Very interesting point. I hadn't thought about that!

I finally broke down and ordered my weight distributing hitch tonight. When it arrives, I'll post pictures of the setup.

Did you ever post pics? I may have missed them.

[Jfuller]

The Suburban is a 1500, it performed well, I need all of the interior capacity of the suburban. Would not be without one, but do wish they still offered a LTZ 2500. I am hearing that they are brining back a 3/4 ton suburban, but it is for commercial fleet purchases, but perhaps you can have one ordered, not sure.

[c640947]

So I ended up with a 2012 Chevrolet Suburban 2500 (3/4 ton. 2013 was last year made, FYI) I has a towing capacity of between 9,000 and 10,000 lbs, depending on what you look at. That should be plenty (i don't use lead - i use all bags for the extra.) It is a 6.0 L gas engine and while not the best for long distance towing, it should tow it fine.

Two questions I have for the group:

1. EOH brakes. I have an EZ Loader trailer with hydraulic surge brakes. I spoke with the manufacturer and they said they don't have a kit where you can make it EOH, they only do electric and those are only for their big trailer that doesn't get put in the water much (set boat in water with crane.) (Odd since they were quoted in this article: http://www.boatus.com/magazine/trail...lic-brakes.asp ) I may need to call back and speak to someone different. Anyway, I have found many places where the concern with installing EOH is that electrics aren't made to get wet and mounting the parts where they won't get wet is tough. I think it can be done with a pedestal type mount but I wanted to see if anyone else did this on their trailer and has pictures they can share. If not i'll be the first and can post what I end up with. Its not the prettiest but I am looking for safety (and I'll see how nice I can make it along the way.)



2. Weight distribution hitch. I think it was asked for a couple of times but I'd love to see pictures of folks G trailers with this type of hitch installed to see specifics. Plenty of pics available for travel trailers but not much online and trailer looks look at you like you are crazy needing one for a boat.

Thanks again in advance.

Andrew

[NautiqueJeff]

My electronics are mounted in a battery box near the tongue.

[c640947]

Very clean. Can I ask some follow up questions?

1. Is that aftermarket or did the manufacturer put that on the trailer before delivery?
2. If aftermarket, can you share what parts were used? By the pictures of parts I had seen I am surprised they all fit in a battery box.
3. I would love to see detailed pics of how the battery box is attached and how the hoses are run.
4. did you consider putting the box on a pedestal or do you feel that the likelihood of water getting over the edge of the box is a non issue (I assume the box is water tight.)
5. Would love to see pics of the weight distribution hitch hooked up if you have them.

Thanks in advance for any additional help. I am taking mine to a trailer company tomorrow to have them do the work so any direction I can provide them is good.

Andrew

[c640947]

So mine didn't end up as pretty as Jeff's but still works amazingly well. Key is I believe it will tow very safe. All of the new electricals should be plenty high enough so as not to get wet even if I have to back quite a ways down. Here are some pictures:







I would still like to see pictures of a WD hitch in action (please post if anyone has any.) I believe it is not necessary based on what I have read in the manuals I have but I still am considering going that route. Nowhere does it indicate that the ratings are only valid with a WD hitch. Still may be wise - I am going to hook everything up now that I have EOH and see how it is.



Andrew

[Jeb1974]

Does anyone know what the approx tongue weight is on a 2015 G23? I saw that Jeff bought a WDH with 1,200 tongue weight capacity (as mentioned in his opening post) but I've read that most boats have a tongue weight of less than 500 lbs. There's actually quite a difference in price up here between sizes (for whatever reason) and I'm not sure if you can have one that's rated too heavy.

Also, approximately how far back from the ball do the bars connect to the frame? I have a boatmate trailer that used to have the steps going up to the bow. I ended up taking off the steps and shortening the front so we could it in our garage. From the centre of the ball to the point where I can put in a pole tongue adapter is 31" to 37". With this mounting option do I have enough room to use either the equalizer hitch or reese sc? I couldn't find any info on how long the bars are (or where they have to be mounted.)

Thanks.

[Beg4wake]

Does anyone know what the approx tongue weight is on a 2015 G23? I saw that Jeff bought a WDH with 1,200 tongue weight capacity (as mentioned in his opening post) but I've read that most boats have a tongue weight of less than 500 lbs. There's actually quite a difference in price up here between sizes (for whatever reason) and I'm not sure if you can have one that's rated too heavy.

Also, approximately how far back from the ball do the bars connect to the frame? I have a boatmate trailer that used to have the steps going up to the bow. I ended up taking off the steps and shortening the front so we could it in our garage. From the centre of the ball to the point where I can put in a pole tongue adapter is 31" to 37". With this mounting option do I have enough room to use either the equalizer hitch or reese sc? I couldn't find any info on how long the bars are (or where they have to be mounted.)

Thanks.

Won't be able to tell ya what a '15 G23 is...but here in about a month when I take delivery of my '16 G23 I will be able to tell ya an approximate weight on that. My hitch has a built in tongue weight scale.

[sixcampbells]

Question for NautiqueJeff or anyone else who wants to weigh in. Jeff has a similar tow vehicle. I just bought a 2015 G23 - no lead and will try to pull with the gas tank no more than 1/2 full - so I a figuring 8000#-8500# max. I traded in my 2010 1/2 ton suburban for a 2005 Ford Excursion with the Triton V10 and 3.73 gears. I put on brand new E class 10 ply tires so I am good there. I also replaced the stock class III hitch with a Curt Class IV and also purchased a new 120000# 2-5/16 hitch and ball. I did all of this hoping to avoid needing to deal with a weight distribution hitch. Do you feel I am covered putting 900# or so on the ball and not using WD? I have a CTW dual axle trailer with break-a-way tongue. Happy to add WD if I need it but I read that a break-a-way tongue is an issue and potentially dangerous. I welcome your thoughts.

[Jeb1974]

Won't be able to tell ya what a '15 G23 is...but here in about a month when I take delivery of my '16 G23 I will be able to tell ya an approximate weight on that. My hitch has a built in tongue weight scale.

]

That would be great, thanks. Our boating season is still 2.5 months away so I've got some time.

[c640947]

Question for NautiqueJeff or anyone else who wants to weigh in. Jeff has a similar tow vehicle. I just bought a 2015 G23 - no lead and will try to pull with the gas tank no more than 1/2 full - so I a figuring 8000#-8500# max. I traded in my 2010 1/2 ton suburban for a 2005 Ford Excursion with the Triton V10 and 3.73 gears. I put on brand new E class 10 ply tires so I am good there. I also replaced the stock class III hitch with a Curt Class IV and also purchased a new 120000# 2-5/16 hitch and ball. I did all of this hoping to avoid needing to deal with a weight distribution hitch. Do you feel I am covered putting 900# or so on the ball and not using WD? I have a CTW dual axle trailer with break-a-way tongue. Happy to add WD if I need it but I read that a break-a-way tongue is an issue and potentially dangerous. I welcome your thoughts.

I am in the same boat (ha) as no lead and half or less gas and I am not sure based on the pictures above of a 3/4 ton Suburban that I need a WD hitch, assuming all else is up to par (ball, hitch, tires, etc.) Anxious to hear if anyone else has further input to safe towing.

Andrew