Serious Thoughts About Safe Towing - G-Series Nautiques

[greggmck]

I think that is a good point of discussion. I too, worry about too little tongue weight. It would seem if you hit a bump in the road just right, the tongue would become weightless, or even pull up on the hitch.

I would have to think that at some point the location of the tires and how many axles does matter. For example, a boxcar trailer you often see semi trucks carrying has wheels at the front and the back of the trailer with virtually zero tongue weight.

It is going to be pretty tough to get a triple axle trailer to sway with a G onboard, even in a hurricane. It is critical that the trailer be level so that all 3 axles are carrying equal weight.

How far apart do the front and rear tires of the trailer have to be for it to be OK?

Exactly right. Much of the towing "wisdom" published has been derived from the typical single or tandem axle camper trailer weight. Few boats ever use WHD hitches because many wont fit. I have over 4,000 hours of boat ownership, over 45 years and I have NEVER seen a WDH on a boat at the ramp. Because of the engine in the rear, boats don't often follow the 7-10% tongue weight rule too.

I DID NOT DESIGN the triple-axle trailer and G23 to come up with the 150LB tongue weight. I just MEASURED IT. The boat was properly loaded. After looking at where the axles are placed it makes perfect sense that there was so little tongue weight. And IT DID trailer very, very well. Furthermore, the idea that tongue weight MUST be 7-10% of trailer weight regardless of axle placement defies engineering and physics principles. I have degrees in both. Like the man said, how much tongue weight does a box car in a train have???

[greggmck]

"I currently only tow about 5 miles to the boat ramp once and 25 miles to the dealer once per year" You sir are setting yourself up for a big accident. Check any towing site or forum - tongue weight should be between 7 and 10% of towed load,no matter how many axles you have. Once you get on the open road and up to speed you'll soon find out the hard way that the tail will wag the dog,it will get worse as a truck passes you,18 wheeler flat beds for some reason the worst. When it happens don't hit your brakes but use your brake controller if you have one and slow the rig down using the trailer brakes. Then go and change your shorts and get some weight on that hitch. You owe it to your passengers and anyone else you share the road with.

Really? How much tongue weight do you see in this picture? 7-10% of the trailer?

[xxrb2010]

"I currently only tow about 5 miles to the boat ramp once and 25 miles to the dealer once per year" You sir are setting yourself up for a big accident. Check any towing site or forum - tongue weight should be between 7 and 10% of towed load,no matter how many axles you have. Once you get on the open road and up to speed you'll soon find out the hard way that the tail will wag the dog,it will get worse as a truck passes you,18 wheeler flat beds for some reason the worst. When it happens don't hit your brakes but use your brake controller if you have one and slow the rig down using the trailer brakes. Then go and change your shorts and get some weight on that hitch. You owe it to your passengers and anyone else you share the road with.

Are you saying that trailer manufacturers are knowingly selling you something that by design is dangerous. Malibu, Boatmate, and Ramlin are all manufacturing and selling 3 axles for heavy wakeboats such as G23. If your claim is true and an accident happen, the manufacturing company would loose a lot of million $ at trial.

Do you have anything to sustain your claim other than "Check any towing site or forum". Not to downplay Internet forums, but you find everything and the opposite on Internet forums, planetnautique included.

[greggmck]

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I'm saying that if you measure the tongue weight of a G23 or other large wake surf boat on a Triple-axle trailer you will find that the tongue weight is significantly lower than what conventional wisdom suggests. That you say it is dangerous outlines the misunderstanding.

Trailering a camper or boat on a single or tandem-axle trailer is safe only when the center of mass is forward of the lateral pivot point. Because with single or tandem axles sway can occur (because the axles are close together) when the weight is too far to the rear. This is where the rules on tongue weight are derived. It IS DANGEROUS when a single or tandem-axle trailer are loaded with additional gear in the rear so that the tongue weight is lower than the recommended 7-10% of load weight. Because the center of mass shifts to behind the axels pivot point which can cause the center of mass to exert lateral side to side harmonics on the trailer. This can cause the trailer to fish tail. Leading to loss of control.

See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jk9H5AB4lM

BUT: The new triple-axle trailers move the axles far in front and far behind the center of mass. Sitting on a level surface these three axles support the entire weight of the boat. You can crank down the front jack and the trailer will remain fairly level (the tongue will not drop to the ground). In this case, because the weight of the boat is fully supported between the axles the tongue weight rule of 7-10% does NOT APPLY. In fact, towing with a low tongue weight with the axles spaced far apart makes towing MUCH safer and is why the large trucks, trains, etc use this weight distribution and axle orientation.

[xxrb2010]

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greggmck,

My post was not about your post but about gary s's post that claims whichever number of axles you have, you should have 7% to 10% of tongue weight. I personally believe that trailer manufactures do not design and sell bad 3 axles trailers, so I am in line with you.

[greggmck]

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Thanks for clarifying xxrb2010. Peace!

[Sailfun]

Exactly right. Much of the towing "wisdom" published has been derived from the typical single or tandem axle camper trailer weight. Few boats ever use WHD hitches because many wont fit. I have over 4,000 hours of boat ownership, over 45 years and I have NEVER seen a WDH on a boat at the ramp. Because of the engine in the rear, boats don't often follow the 7-10% tongue weight rule too.

I DID NOT DESIGN the triple-axle trailer and G23 to come up with the 150LB tongue weight. I just MEASURED IT. The boat was properly loaded. After looking at where the axles are placed it makes perfect sense that there was so little tongue weight. And IT DID trailer very, very well. Furthermore, the idea that tongue weight MUST be 7-10% of trailer weight regardless of axle placement defies engineering and physics principles. I have degrees in both. Like the man said, how much tongue weight does a box car in a train have???

The only thing confusing me is the pic you posted shows about 670lbs of tongue weight.

[greggmck]

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The gauge measures approximately 675lbs of weight for the tandem-axel trailer loaded with the 2016 G23 empty of gear full fuel.

I don't have a picture of the tongue weight gauge with the 2018 G23 mounted on the triple-axel but I do show a picture of the truck and loaded trailer. You can see there is no sag in the rear compared to the top picture with the 2016 G23 on the tandem axle-trailer at 675lbs tongue weight

When I first walked up to the 2018 G on the triple-axle and stooped down to read the tongue weight gauge and it displayed 150lbs I was stunned! I even removed and reconnected the triple-axle trailer to see if something was wrong. In my surprise I forgot to take a picture. But I sat there and checked and rechecked the gauge for literally ten minutes.

[RDT-G23]

I thought I'd fire this old thread up again just to share something that perplexes me. My lake house flooded last week; luckily only my boat house and garage got it-but nonetheless-a mess. The week before it flooded, we had a flood warning, and I ran up and removed my boat from the lift with a friend's G23 trailer (5 years old trailer). So, when the water came last week-my boat was safe and dry in a storage unit. When the surprise (and it was) flood came, my friends G was totaled. (It was smashed into the top of his boat house, and had no plug in it.) Regardless, he needed his trailer for when the adjuster arrived to assess it. (It was totaled, thankfully) At any rate, I had to buy a trailer to keep my boat on while the damage from the flood is fixed. I called Buxton in DFW; they had one, just like my neighbor's who has a G. I bought it, and my boat is once again in storage for the winter. Here is the rub... We all know that a G with nothing in it is ~6K lbs; the trailer is ~1,500lbs+, but they put a 2" coupler on the trailer. My Weighsafe 2" ball is rated at 8,000 lbs max, while my 2 5/16 is 10K or more. I called Boatmate, and they said, "You can find 2" tow balls that hav a 10K rating, which I know is true, but why not just put a 2 5/16 actuator to ensure that whatever hitch/ball brand is rated for the weight? I know others may prefer other brands, and I understand, but for what I need-this is fine. (I rarely need a trailer) I just wish Boatmate would use their noggins... Opine? I'm attaching a picture of the trailer behind a friend's truck who picked it up in DFW and brought it down to me. (I drive a 2017 F-250).

[Bevostein]

Is that a G23 trailer and was it used?

[RDT-G23]

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It is a brand spanking new G23 Boatmate trailer.

[Tallredrider]

RDT you are absolutely right. 2 inch balls are much more common, but the vast majority out there are rated for 5K or 8K at the most. You have to search to find a stronger 2 inch ball. Knowing the weight on the trailer, they should have constructed it with the bigger ball hitch.

Cue jokes:
Check your balls, fellas!

Bigger balls are better!

[GMLIII]

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Tallredrider bigger balls are not always better if they are Blue

[RDT-G23]

When I called Boatmate to point out that it would be wise to simply install a 2 5/16" actuator on a boat trailer with this much weight to ensure the ball was strong enough for the weight, I got the "there are 2" balls with a 10K rating" statement. This is true, but I think most folks are not crazy anal-retentive freaks like me that study everything to ensure appropriate capacities are in place. The old, but accurate, statement is-"a chain is only as strong as its weakest link"...

[JD ski]

I reread most all of these posts. Most all have merit. I also use the Weigh Safe hitch and was surprised when I hooked up my 1999 Air. It only had 150 lbs. of tongue weight with everything level. So I dropped the ball pin one 1 inch. To transfer more load forward. That one inch resulted in another 200 lbs. of tongue weight for a total of 350 lbs. on the ball. That is close to the desired 7-10% tongue weight. Right where I needed to be.

I have seen the results of having to much leverage (think Breaker Bar) behind the tow vehicle rear axle. This was an accident involving a 3/4 ton truck towing an Airstream trailer. Both the truck and trailer littered approximately 1/2 of a mile of interstate I-5 on a long down hill grade in Southern Oregon. Not a pretty sight. Accidents are call an accident for a reason. Something went wrong, not thought about, considered, or something completely out of your control occurred. Something bad happened or maybe you just needed to clean your shorts and hopefully learned the weakness or something about your specific set up and what needs to be changed.

Many Sales People, not all, will sale you anything even if the setup is not safe or in your best interest. It is the drivers responsibility to make sure the set up is within the laws of your state. You may end up in court having to defend your decision to tow with set up you chose. If you are outside the law there is a chance your insurance will not cover you. Attempt to stay at the lower end of the tow vehicle limits and if, and when, that accident occurs maybe you were able to maintain some level of control.