hard tank removal VS. piggy back on top of tanks... ready go.

[nautiques4life]

2012- 230 but thread applies to anyone...
Looking to upgrade stock system and I am debating full replacement vs adding integrated bags on top.
Anyone with either system please chime in. Main concerns are ease of use. Concerned about losing guages on link 2.o and what happens when the 1100's are full in the locker do I have to remove all my life jackets, ropes, and bumpers every time or is there room for both when full on a 230.

[xrichard]

I had a 2008 SAN210 and first did a piggy back system. After a few years, I switched to pulling the tanks and using larger bags. It was one of the best upgrades I made because bags are more space efficient than hard tanks. I could carry more weight and have way more storage. Way more storage. Definitely worth the headache and expense. No downside except the effort to remove the tanks.

I thought I'd miss the gauges, but I didn't...I only used them in a binary fashion: full and empty. Full is easy--water runs out the vents. Empty is easy, too: the pumps change pitch and you can visually check the bag. I don't know how much room is left in a 230 w/full 1100s...but I can guarantee there will be more room than with hard tanks if carrying the same amount of weight.

[nautiques4life]

Makes sense; thanks xrichard... I wish the drain was out the side too like my old 210... That way listening would be easy and I wouldn't have to check visually

[Bevostein]

I had a 2008 SAN210 and first did a piggy back system. After a few years, I switched to pulling the tanks and using larger bags. It was one of the best upgrades I made because bags are more space efficient than hard tanks. I could carry more weight and have way more storage. Way more storage. Definitely worth the headache and expense. No downside except the effort to remove the tanks.

I thought I'd miss the gauges, but I didn't...I only used them in a binary fashion: full and empty. Full is easy--water runs out the vents. Empty is easy, too: the pumps change pitch and you can visually check the bag. I don't know how much room is left in a 230 w/full 1100s...but I can guarantee there will be more room than with hard tanks if carrying the same amount of weight.

Couldn't say it any better. I also tried the piggyback first and then pulled the hard tanks.

[nautiques4life]

How about room for vests? You have to take all that stuff out every time you filled them?

[Whitetail15]

I started with piggy back on my 210 for one year (750's on top). Then pulled hard tanks and used 750 on one side and 1100 on the port side. So much better with tanks pulled.
My gauges were never right to begin with, i don't think anyones are if you really check the tanks.

[ddipert]

2010 230 with 1100 sacs and hard tanks, I'm going to pull the hard tank this year.
Yes you will need to move your vests some place else but there is more than enough room under the seats to fit all of the uscg vest. I leave the wake jackets in the rear lockers, 3 or 4 is all, and the ropes.

[nautiques4life]

I figure with the 650 in the bow storage I will have lost a lot of space. Anyone considered a custom bag that is better measured for that space that is 2" shorter to accommodate some room for flat gear?

[scottb7]

You won't care about the gauges. You just know how many button presses you put in and out. I have 1100 sacs and we usually are 1 or 2 button presses. Also I have no problem with the vests I hung some straps on inside of each side of the hatch. I will take a picture some time. And even with 2 button presses there is no problem. You just have so much more room with the sacs (as many have said) because the 1100 sac fills the area so much better then the hard tanks did.

[scottb7]

Here is the picture I promised showing hanging the vests and ropes with no problem even with 2 button presses.

[nautiques4life]

I like your 12v outlet there too... I need one there- although with an integrated system it won't be as useful

[Miljack]

I like the stock tanks w/a piggyback setup, only because I suck and ride a lot with just stock ballast. If you're looking to maximize the wake every time on a 230, removing the tanks and going with the largest bag you can fit in the back will allow more weight than stock+piggyback.
I would experiment with some bags instead of just throwing Flyhi 1100's in there. Some guys on WW showed some actual weights of different bags full on a freight scale which was quite interesting. Sumo 900's are about a 1000 pounds full, and the FH 750's are closer to 720 full (I think). Anyhow, maybe worth removing a tank and checking the dimensions of the locker.

[xrichard]

FWIW, on my 210 I ran 750s in the back plus a hundred pounds of lead in each rear locker. After two button pushes, the bags would typically just start venting water over the side. I could run a slight bit into a third cycle to make sure they were topped off. At that point, they filled the locker approximately 3/4 vertically...so still plenty of room for jackets, etc. Keep in mind the hard tanks took up about 1/3-1/2 of the vertical space...so the remaining room after filling 750s is pretty good relative to stock.

By contrast, 400lb bags on top of the hard tanks: when full, they were pressing against the locker lid. Less weight and no storage. Plus, when I wasn't running ballast (e.g. just going out to hang with my family in a cove), +/-1/2 of the locker storage was already taken up with the hard tank and empty bag. Folks running 750s on top of hard tanks aren't getting more weight than 400s...there simply isn't any more room.

(As an aside, when I pulled the hard tanks I didn't go for the 1100lb sacks because we don't surf, I wanted storage and just bit more weight for wakeboarding. In my experience more than about 750-850 in each rear locker causes planing and porpoising problems. After 850/locker, you're going to need more weight mid-boat rather than more weight int he rear.)

[4th ski-doo]

I've got 400's on top of the factory, wish there was a drop in shelf so that I didn't lose the storage. That part just stinks! The original space is so nice.

[nautiques4life]

Update, I went for it. Pulled the rear tanks replaced with 1100's, added the 650 as a piggyback to the bow.
Things I've learned...
-Although wakemakers says the 1100 is the bag designed for my boat it really isn't. With the hard tank out the area is actually significantly longer than 50" but custom bags per my measurements were cost prohibitive.
-If you don't have a heat gun, boiling water on the stove will warm the tubing enough to get 1" tubing over the 1 and 1/8" fittings.
-I bought the clear tubing... but wouldn't next time. Because my boat's drain is under the boat I would not be able to hear when it finished draining... so I wanted to be able to see it. In truth it is a hassle to get to a place where you can see the tubing, plus its dark back there and with the way it is made, the tube really is only 50% clear. Half of it is still black- if it ran across the dash it would be easy to see, but in the bottom of the boat under the seat in the dark- not so much.
-these bags are tough and well built, I have no issues leaving gear on them, in the bow I occasionally have the cushions lift when it is full. I have gotten riding jackets stuck in between bags and the wall and had to drain partially to get it out, but never worried about popping issues.
-In the end I do miss the "somewhat" accurate gauges- I bought some extra pump impellers 'cause it is only a matter of time 'til the stock ones get fried. Full fill up is close to 3 cycles on my boat which makes draining tricky. Unfortunately stock ballast was kind of worthless for wakeboarding, and while the system isn't without it's flaws I am very glad I did it. Being able to pull up and press some buttons easily beats sitting at the ride spot moving people, gear, and luggage to fill and drain bags by hand with hoses. If anyone is considering going for it and has any questions I did not address feel free to msg me and I'll give whatever advice I can.