Purchasing first inboard, need test-drive advice

[Darter]

Hello all, I'm shopping for our first tow boat. We've used an 86 Chaparral 178XL with a 90HP merc for the last 25 years for just about everything short of surfing. Looking to get serious with the power and wake for both slalom and boarding and would love to try surfing. I've skied and footed behind Nautiques before, so I have a rough idea of what to expect behind the boat.

Where I need help though is in the driving, cockpit, engine, and general equipment areas. I've never driven an inboard. I know a few basics like you can't steer when backing up, but not much beyond that.

I'm headed out to test drive a 99 air nautique with a GT-40 tonight. Kind of a last minute request, but I'd appreciate any feedback on what to look out for, what to listen to, and where to push it a bit.

The boat is right at 360 hours and from the pictures it looks super clean (maybe not quite "mint", but close). Asking price is at $19,900, sitting on a tandem custom trailer, with brand new PP just added, 2 additional fat sacs, FCT1 tower, Wet Sounds system with 2 tower speakers, and bimini. Does that sound like a reasonable price to start things off with? Would it be unreasonable to get down into the $17,900 range? Keep in mind that there's only 1 or 2 Nautique dealers in WI, and statewid, CL isn't exactly awash with all-around boats in VG condition.

[keithh2oskier]

Can't answer for the price but cash speaks.

As for what to look for your basically want to be on the look out for normal Mechanical issues. So when it comes to the motor, look/listen for knocking, hard starting, etc. 360 hours is nothing on the GT-40 so if it was maintained then there is plenty of life left in the motor. I am guessing winterizing is a must up in WI (not an issue for me) so look for signs of cracking in the block. Check the fluids looking and smelling for burnt or dark colors. Check to see if the bilge is clean. If the boat is leaking oil/fluids it will collect in the bilge and most people dont clean it out. Make sure its not taking on excessive water. The exhaust risers should be warm to the touch even when the motor is running and up to temp. If its really hot, the impeller might be toast and not circulating enough water through the engine. Ask for maintenance records. Check belts for good condition. Look for rust around the exhaust ports as well. Could be a sign of a blown gasket. Transmission should shift smoothly from neutral to forward/reverse gear without much noise or clunk. Turn the stereo off while test driving it. Listen for mechanical issues. Crank it up when your done with your test drive.

Test EVERY switch to make sure it works.

Steering cable should be easy to turn with one index finger on the steering wheel. If it takes any more pressure than that, it likely means the steering cable needs to be replaced ($200).

Don't neglect looking at the trailer. Check the tires closely as new tires will run almost $1000 on a tandem. I assume a single axle has drum breaks. Check the fluid reservoir and make sure that wasn't neglected. How are the trailer bunks and carpet? Doing new bunks/carpet with Stainless Steel hardware is gonna cost $100 after all said and done.

Good luck, take LOTS of photos if your serious. I always get anxious when looking at the boat and I come home and was like ohh I saw a scratch but don't remember where or how bad it really was.

Sorry for the jumbled thoughts. Just trying to get as much down as possible.

[ski4evr]

Everything Keith said, if you could do the towing, you would get a good feel for the brakes too. Shift slowly into forward and reverse, shouldn't feel any clunks or hear any. Bilge is a real key to leaks and problems. It should take a little water on in an hour or so, but should not be enough to check the bilge pumps. The fluids were probably changed prior to layup, so check them after the test run. Good Luck!

[Darter]

Keith and ski4evr, I really appreciate the quick and detailed responses. Unfortunately, this one was a big disappointment. We pulled up to the drive to find the seller and his wife doing their spring detailing... waxing, cleaning, vacuuming. All a great sign. The hull looked nice as I walked up to it, but all hope was lost when I saw all the scratches on the tower, missing paint on the windshield frame, tears in a few cushions, stains on the carpet, and a faded dash. The guy said he's had it for a couple of years and picked it up in TX. The thing that bugged me though is that it still had the TX license and registration sticker on the hull. Looked like it had baked out in the hot TX sun, totally unprotected.

Grrr... at least it was only a 45 min drive.

Thanks again for the help! At least now I know what I'm looking for when I do find one worth the test drive.

[keithh2oskier]

Bummer. Yep that happens. I try and get as many photos up front as possible especially when driving a good distance. Similar situation happened to me last fall where we spoke on the phone and the guy said the 01 was in great condition and he was a mechanic and did all sorts of work on it. I drive an hour to look at it and within 5 min I knew it was a bust. But I finally found one that I really liked so in the end its worth it.

[DLafont]

Too bad things didn't turn out so good, next time with boat still on trailer, check the prop and try to spin the shaft, if it turns well good news!! Check underside of hull to spot anything looking funky. Test all lights on trailer. Tandem trailers use a 5 pin connector, one send juice to the solenoid when backing up to prevent the brakes from activating. I learned the hard way... Boat shopping is a fun process, try and enjoy it and keep bouncing your questions on this forum, we're all happy to help newcomers join the Nautique armada!!

[BoardSkier]

Agree with everything said above. Sorry you had a bad experience. Ive purchased a boat 6 hours away. It was at a dealer and I asked for close up pics of the problem areas, which thankfully were few.

Ask for close ups of the bad spots. If you get there and find more, perhaps thats a red flag. What else is hiding? Also ask for a low angle shot of the gel coat on sides and top. Top will fade the most. Get lots of interior shots, especially the carpet or cushion areas in the ingress/egress path. Do all the guages work? "The hour meter quit last summer" is a red flag. As you caught, mismatched registration is also a red flag.

Enought cant be said about asking about trailer maintenance, especially if you have to tow alot. The boat may not have been used in salt water, but was the trailer? Check to see boat and trailer registrations match same state. Did it also get annual maintenance? Rust? Brakes work? Tires dry rotted? Does it have trailer tires? Car and trailer tires not the same. You can run up 1000 or more on trailer repair pretty quickly.


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[Guntersville230]

If your really thinking more toward wake/surf boat I may shy away from a direct drive and look more at v-drives. At speed with no weight, wake is big but as long as your not planning on running a course, you would probably be ok. Its just very difficult (but not impossible with LOTS of additional bags/weight) to get a nice wake/surf wave out of a direct drive if you gonna put the money into it IMO. BUT thats just an opinion, get whatever boat speaks to you!!!

[BoardSkier]

Forgot to mention electronics in the negotiations. Some owners have a really nice set up and the boat may be priced as such. Conversely, owner may say it has a kickin' stereo. When you get there you find an under dash 8 track. (Ur old if you understand that!) Understand your needs and get specifics about amps, wattage, what speakers they power. If owner tells you the problem is a blown fuse, could need a new amp. Stereo and tower speaker repairs/replacemennt could easily run in the 1000's.


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[Darter]

Yeah, more photos, specifically requesting problem areas, may have helped. Not sure with this particular seller though. He really seemed to be trying to pull something here.

Too bad things didn't turn out so good, next time with boat still on trailer, check the prop and try to spin the shaft, if it turns well good news!!

So about this particular test... I tried this out on this boat. At first it felt like it wasn't going to turn, or as if I was spinning against some engine compression. It moved then, but took a little bit of effort to do so. Should it spin easily like an outboard prop, or should there be a fair amount of resistance? It turned smoothly and consistently though.

Lots of great advice here and I really appreciate all of you stepping up to help out. It's only mid April, and in WI without a wetsuit I still have a month and a half before it's ski season anyway, but I'm still itching to find something nice.

I've considered the v-drive, but I'm so used to working on outboards at eye level, fully open shroud, that I can't see myself squeezing into an engine bay to change an impeller. The wide open doghouse on a DD really appeals to me. I don't think wakeboarding would ever get serious enough that our collective talents would exceed the wake capabilities of a DD with sacs. But then again, look what we've had to work with for the last 25 years.

Oh, and speaking of which.... yes, our first boat (a 17' Glaspar with a 135hp Merc) had an 8-track player.

[DLafont]

So about this particular test... I tried this out on this boat. At first it felt like it wasn't going to turn, or as if I was spinning against some engine compression. It moved then, but took a little bit of effort to do so. Should it spin easily like an outboard prop, or should there be a fair amount of resistance? It turned smoothly and consistently though.


[/QUOTE]
So the prop will need a bit of force to turn, but one hand should do, but it won,t spin freely, I guess I should have been more specific. Also gives you a chance to inspect the prop itself and the shaft as well. I'm still dealing with the fact that my lake is still frozen and I won't be on the water for at least a month...

[BoardSkier]

Ive had a DD and now a V drive. Dont underestimate the interest in wakeboarding and surfing vs skiing, this coming from a 24+ yr slalomer. If you have kids or younger riders, they'll want to wakeboard or wakesurf. You just cant get it right on the DD. I tried everything. Also the room is much better. We used the doghouse for a table, seat, etc and thought we liked it. Then came the openess of the V drive and we never looked back. If you are putting sacks in a DD you have almost no walk room.

About the photos... Been there. If the seller wont take them (as happened to me) then not worth the trip. If he takes them and says this is it and you arrive and find a few minor things more, you can judge. But .... if you arrive and find cracks, torn seats, worn carpets, etc you can turn right around and not waste your time. Grab a nice lunch and head back home.


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[Guntersville230]

Ive had a DD and now a V drive. Dont underestimate the interest in wakeboarding and surfing vs skiing, this coming from a 24+ yr slalomer. If you have kids or younger riders, they'll want to wakeboard or wakesurf. You just cant get it right on the DD. I tried everything. Also the room is much better. We used the doghouse for a table, seat, etc and thought we liked it. Then came the openess of the V drive and we never looked back. If you are putting sacks in a DD you have almost no walk room.

About the photos... Been there. If the seller wont take them (as happened to me) then not worth the trip. If he takes them and says this is it and you arrive and find a few minor things more, you can judge. But .... if you arrive and find cracks, torn seats, worn carpets, etc you can turn right around and not waste your time. Grab a nice lunch and head back home.


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Same here....had a DD and now have a vdive....will NEVER go back...have a 4yo and a 2yo and the space you get for family, friends and gear is no comparison! If ur worried about the tightness of working in engine bay dont forget that the engine compartment dividers slide out to aid in getting the bay more open....just if your shopping and have time test one out and see what u think, cant hurt with the money your gonna put into this boat.

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[vvfdfirefighter]

Hello all, I'm shopping for our first tow boat. We've used an 86 Chaparral 178XL with a 90HP merc for the last 25 years for just about everything short of surfing. Looking to get serious with the power and wake for both slalom and boarding and would love to try surfing. I've skied and footed behind Nautiques before, so I have a rough idea of what to expect behind the boat.

Where I need help though is in the driving, cockpit, engine, and general equipment areas. I've never driven an inboard. I know a few basics like you can't steer when backing up, but not much beyond that.

I'm headed out to test drive a 99 air nautique with a GT-40 tonight. Kind of a last minute request, but I'd appreciate any feedback on what to look out for, what to listen to, and where to push it a bit.

The boat is right at 360 hours and from the pictures it looks super clean (maybe not quite "mint", but close). Asking price is at $19,900, sitting on a tandem custom trailer, with brand new PP just added, 2 additional fat sacs, FCT1 tower, Wet Sounds system with 2 tower speakers, and bimini. Does that sound like a reasonable price to start things off with? Would it be unreasonable to get down into the $17,900 range? Keep in mind that there's only 1 or 2 Nautique dealers in WI, and statewid, CL isn't exactly awash with all-around boats in VG condition.

I'll agree to an extent about DD boats. However, if price is somewhat of an issue for you and you can't shell out 25+ on a boat, I wouldn't hesitate on looking at a DD. V-Drives carry a pretty hefty price. However, Nautique Direct Drives and pre 06 Mastercraft’s are not what you're looking for. They’re practically the same exact slalom boats with a tower. Still a very low freeboard and hardly any wake. I'm sure I'll get shamed for mentioning it on the Nautique site but if you're looking for a really good 15-20 Thousand dollar boat, 95-04 Supra Launch or Sunsport is your answer. They are direct drive and honestly have a very good wave for wakeboarding with built in ballast -after '99. They pulled many wakeboarding competitions. I know some will claim Nautique patented the wakeboard tower but Supra patented the wakeboard boat and tower in my opinion. Their hulls were beyond anything Mastercraft, and CC/Nautique even dreamed about in those days.

While Mastercraft and CC were into no wake slalom boats, Supra, in the 80's, was making slalom and wakeboarding boats. The Launch was just another leap forward in Direct Drive water displacement for wakeboarding! I still have one myself. It’s a very good running boat and has a nice good wake for wakeboarding. I just sold my 87 Supra that would put a lot of newer boats to shame on wakeboarding wake size. One reason it sold as well and as quick as it did. Nautique has stepped its game up since 2004 and are well into the wakeboarding/surfing generation of boats now. However, those boats might cost a bit much for you and that's fine. Just thought I'd open you up to a few more options. The main goal is getting the family out and enjoying the water. It doesn't matter if you drive a Nautique, Malibu, Supra or Mastercraft. The point is to be active and having fun without putting yourself into debt!

[vvfdfirefighter]

As for some things to look for when looking at an inboard boat....

1. Check the prop shaft. Grab ahold of it as others have stated and try to turn it. It will take a little effort and will not spin like the outdrive of and I/O or Outboard. However it should spin fairly decent with a hand or two.

2. Grab the prop with both hands, and try to shake it up/down or side to side. Reason being is to check the cutless bearing that holds the shaft and prop under the boat. This point is called the prop strut. If the shaft giggles there's a good chance a new bearing is needed. This entails pulling the shaft and sometimes the prop. Often the term we use to describe the prop shaft, prop and shaft strut is "Running Gear".

3. Check for cracks around the exhaust on the transom of the boat. This could tell you if the boat has been running hot or has been ran out of the water for extended periods of time. These cracks can cause issues with letting water soak in through them and cause issues with gaining water in the bilge. Not as big of a problem now on the mostly 100% fiberglass boats, it posed a little more problems with boats still using wood in the transoms.

4. Sit directly behind the boat, almost eye level with the prop. Look up the prop shaft and use your best judgment to see if the prop strut is straight or may be bent. This could indicate and underwater prop strike. Even with a new prop the strut or shaft can be bent and need fixed or replaced or it will start wearing out the water packing, that protects the boat from taking on water where the prop goes through the bottom of the hull to the outside. Each individual piece of the running gear can set you back around $600.00

5. Don't let hours scare you too much. Even boats from the 80's were well capable of having 800+ hours on them before a rebuild was considered. I'd shy away from anything that says hours unknown. A good number to think is the average person puts about 30 hours on their boat a month during the riding season. A boat with a good bit more than that doesn't mean it’s a bad boat; it just means that's a sell price negotiation that can be taken into consideration.

6. Do all of the gauges work? Most of these boats from '99 on have digital gauges. Even though they look like standard analog needle gauges, a computer operates them. These gauges are usually expensive to replace as most are No longer made and are special order from the company. Although you can run analog gauges shall you want, you'll just have to have the knowledge on how to run the sensors to the gauges (Year depending).

7. Check the exhaust manifolds on the engine. We call these water jackets. Think of them as a set of manifolds with another layer of larger sized tubing wrapped around them. The larger area carries cold water and surrounds the exhaust manifolds keeping them cool. There should be a drain plug on each. Use a flashlight and check in the drain plug. You're looking for chunks of rust, or flakes of rust. This could indicate the manifolds are starting to be towards the upper limit of age and may need replaced soon. On Average a set of manifolds on a fresh water boat will usually last 10-15 years respectively. Salt water boats are about 5-7 years.

8. Check if the boat has an electronic distributor as opposed to having points. Even better would be distributor-less. Don't worry if it has points you can swap it out for an electric version for about 300.00. You will thank yourself when you do. I fought points for 10 years. Never minded them because I understood them but I finally gave in and bought electronic ignition and well it was the best investment I ever made. You'll know the difference when you pop the distributor cap! Again, another sell price negotiation item.

9. Your usual engine checks: Does it start well, idle smooth, shut off when the key is turned off, does it come up to operating temperature (between 130-160 degrees). Does it make odd noises, clanks, sputter, etc.

These next pointers are for looking at the boat while it’s in the water

10. Test out the steering wheel. I say do this in the water because on some boats they will steer a little hard on land but perfectly in the water. The water tends to lube the O-Rings a little.

11. Check the thru-hull packing. There are two types of these. You have Dripless and Drip. This is the rubber connection that the drive shaft is encased in when it goes through the bottom of the boat. To tell the difference it’s quite easy. A big brass nut on one end it’s a Drip packing. These packing have wax rope inside them that keeps water from flooding the boat. These are intended to drip about 1 drop every 30-60 seconds. No more. The reason for this is that drop of water allows the prop shaft to be lubricated and cooled as its turning. The second type is Dripless. You'll know these because the shaft will go through a rubber casing. On that casing you'll see another hose attached to it. This hose is a water line used to cool the prop shaft. This type should not drip inside the boat. Check the thru-hull packing while the boat is in neutral.

12. Run the boat at multiple different speeds, checking for driveline or engine vibrations. These vibrations are usually found at slower speeds around 18-20 MPH.

13. Gel-Coat. This can turn a lot of people off from a boat. Sellers know this. However if it’s faded this can be used as price bargaining. You can usually bring back a Gel-Coat with the proper tools in just a weekend, or you can pay a marina or detail person to do it for you. Some of the heavily oxidized gel may need wet sanded. However you can get good prices on boats with gel fading. Again this is up to you if you decide you want to do the work, pay someone or walk away from the boat all together. Sun beats these boats up, there’s no doubt about it.

14. Upholstery. This is also one of those things you can heckle with the price on. If the interior has a few bad pieces it’s no big deal. You can replace them easy enough. You can expect a whole boat re-upholstery to cost around 3-6 thousand if every piece needs replaced. Usually if it’s just a couple seats here and there you can just replace them over a couple years. One piece a year etc. Again, it’s all up to you and if the boat has solid bones and the price is right.

I hope these ideas of things to look for wasn't too long and easy enough to understand. I'm sure others will have other things to add but these are the biggest things to look for on a boat.