2001 SAN 210 - What's it worth?

[mnmark]

Saw this boat yesterday. It has a very used feel to it, not the worst I've seen though. He has 800lb sacks in the lockers and I could tell he had wake plates installed at some time (could have seen heavy use). Most of the vinyl was replaced except the bow which is getting pretty bad. A few things worry me a bit, it has a closed cooling system, he says he did that mod because theres lots of muck in the lake behind his house and it was clogging up the intake(?). It also has some spider craking around the prop area. And the prop is chewed up a bit see pic. Price is pretty good though compared to anything else, he just lowered it from 24k (I'm trying to stay under $20k). Trying to decide is I should get it inspected or just wait for something a little cleaner in this price range. http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/an...542172669.html

[shag]

Personally, I would skip it.... Things don't make sense....

[Blamey]

I'm no expert but when people have posted similar spider cracks, these have not been considered a big deal. Things happen to props, that's not a big deal either.

The closed cooling makes sense to me. Based on the location it doesn't seem like the boat was near salt water and if it was you'd see signs of rust.

What else makes you think the boat has been well used?

I wouldn't run away just yet, but like I said I'm no expert.

[vvfdfirefighter]

Well, I wouldn't knock a person for "well use" of their boat. I spend the kind of money for a boat as a house, you bet I'm going to use it. The only reason my boats don't see a lot of hours is because of my work schedule, and I have my pick between 2 to use.

Those are not spider cracks though, but more of structural stress cracks. Structural and spider cracks are two different things!!! That is definitely from an underwater strike, as prevalent from the chewed up prop. May not be a big issue however, it could be a costly fix if its deeper damage than the eye can see. Everyone has a prop strike from time to time. Its bound to happen. However, whatever he hit has caused either the prop strut to flex and crack the gel coat or the rudder caught it as well, which flexed the gel and cracked it. There may be fiberglass damage under there and there may not be. I would have that looked at by a professional. Also, with damage like that, I would assume the prop strut and or prop shaft would be bent as well. A couple more key items to look into.

A boat can be well used but also well taken care of. I've also seen boats rarely used and in horrible condition from being tucked away and never looked at, too. Post some more pictures and maybe we can give you a little more of an idea of condition and price.

I wouldn't be knocking the closed cooling system. That is about a $3K install that's been added to the boat and recently it sounds. Makes life so much easier for winterizing, enjoying and just a lot easier on the motor etc.


Just a couple weeks ago, another member snagged an '02 210 that was in less than stellar condition. Solid hull, no structural cracks but a well used interior. The boat had seen better days but overall was a strong bones boat and needed a couple weeks of elbow grease to get her looking good. (http://www.planetnautique.com/vb5/fo...-me-02-san-210)

He also bought it for $16,900 and has since put a lot of sweat equity into it and it doesn't even look like the same boat!



v/r
Robbie

[t.franscioni]

Boat looks clean in the pictures. New transmission 3 years ago and the spider cracks under prop and the fact that you say there was a wake plate (which I'm assuming is like a malibu wedge for wake enhancement) makes me think the boat was probably under heavy load and the guy was serious about wakeboarding. Relatively new transmission though is good it means the original went out before he decided to sell. Find out which transmission went in. I think that boat had a pcm 40 series and I know replacements offered include a newer pcm 80 series which is supposed to be more heavy duty for weighted boats. As for the spider cracks everyone is going to have a different threshold for stuff like that when shopping used. My personal opinion is it is likely not structural because from my experience working with fiberglass is that fiberglass doesn't hairline crack like that because it's not a solid one component material like plastic or metal which can hairline crack. Instead if it gets damaged it is clearly visible and will look like particle board when you snap in in half or begin to crack it. Very jagged edges not relatively straight line spider cracks. My thought: gel coat doesn't tolerate flexing much at all. If he had a wake plate and 3000lbs of ballast then alot of that force is being applied to the prop shaft/strut and rudder when the boat tries to propell itself or turn under heavy load like that which can cause those areas to be flexed and crack the gel coat which can't tolerate the flexing that fiberglass and resin can. Plus gel coat cracks can originate from a small ding like the one in your picture. If there is no damage visible inside the hull where the rudder comes through and where the strut is mounted then I wouldn't be overly concerned about the structural integrity of the hull. Besides major blunt force trauma you would clearly see if the boat hit something big like a tree or a rock and it would do a lot more damage than the nibbled prop blade and peasized ding in the gel coat that is shown in your picture. I dont think any nautique has ever sunk due to structural failure of the hull from being over weighted. If it was me shopping i would use the spider cracks as a negotiating point because even if they are just visual it will be expensive to fix unless you do it yourself. It would be worth an inspection in my opinion but where I live nautiques are one of the rarest wakeboard boats it seems and so I wouldn't let the opportunity pass to at least inspect before deciding against it. I would be looking hard at the motor though if driven under heavy load all the time as it likely hadn't seen an overhaul yet in its life but if hours are accurate at 600s then that's not too much or too little which can be just as problematic like the above posts mention. You can get a lot of engine corrosion in low hour motors that are 10+ years old if they are not stored properly whereas a motor that sees regular use will not show much corrosion if any internally. If nautiques are common in your area and you just don't feel right about a particular boat then let it pass and keep looking until you find one you feel good about. That's what it's really about... Feeling good about your purchase. Good luck in your search.

[slidin_out]

I hit a stump in my first 210 and it caused very fine cracks about 2-3" long to go out from each corner of the strut. It bent the strut, prop, and shaft. When they dug the fiberglass out the cracks were merely superficial. If you drive it and it shakes you know you are looking at possibly a new shaft and strut being installed and possibly some other new drive train parts and an engine alignment. You definitely will want to go ahead and replace the prop with a high altitude ACME or whatever they recommend. Take the old prop and get it reworked for a spare trust me it's worth it if it saves you one lost weekend on the water. I wouldn't run from this one. Make sure all the ballast pumps work fill and empty, bilges work, all accessories work, gas struts on all compartments are good. When checking steering it should be somewhat firm but not hard to turn under power. If it has a slight grind while turning the arm on the end of the steering cable (for lack of better way to explain it) behind the dash needs a little grease. Check all fluids. Give it a solid half hour on dry land and half hour on the water checking everything. You need to factor in the little things that need to be fixed up to your standards after you purchase into the offer. Pros you have new vinyl except in the front, closed cooling, and one of the best hulls ever made. Check the trailer out really good including bunks after water test. Make sure the trailer brakes work, there is grease in the hubs, and all the lights work. Those are other items you might have to deal with. If the tires are in any questionable state and you have to pull it a long way home after purchase just save yourself the headache and go ahead and replace the trailer tires before you set out on your trek home...been there done that no fun changing tires on the side of 6 lanes of high speed interstate traffic. Definitely don't run from it though, solid motor and great hull is your core and this boat has that it appears.

[mnmark]

Thanks for the excellent advice, I'll talk to the owner, and hope that he is willing to bring it to a lake for a test run, then submit it to a inspection. I hate to waste peoples time, so might have to see if he will drop a few thousand first. How much would a decent prop cost?

[glp86]

A new Acme prop is about $450-$500. Getting a prop repaired cost about $150-$200.

[vvfdfirefighter]

A new Acme prop is about $450-$500. Getting a prop repaired cost about $150-$200.

This is a comparable price you would be looking to pay for a replacement prop strut if it happened to be bent as well. Either brand new or having it repaired. Plus laser alignment!

As for a bent shaft, you could be looking anywhere between 450-800 depending on the length, size...etc....

Just all price "ideas" for you if you notice they are issues. Might not be such and only a prop which would be nice.

[SAN210Pat]

Well, I wouldn't knock a person for "well use" of their boat. I spend the kind of money for a boat as a house, you bet I'm going to use it. The only reason my boats don't see a lot of hours is because of my work schedule, and I have my pick between 2 to use.

Those are not spider cracks though, but more of structural stress cracks. Structural and spider cracks are two different things!!! That is definitely from an underwater strike, as prevalent from the chewed up prop. May not be a big issue however, it could be a costly fix if its deeper damage than the eye can see. Everyone has a prop strike from time to time. Its bound to happen. However, whatever he hit has caused either the prop strut to flex and crack the gel coat or the rudder caught it as well, which flexed the gel and cracked it. There may be fiberglass damage under there and there may not be. I would have that looked at by a professional. Also, with damage like that, I would assume the prop strut and or prop shaft would be bent as well. A couple more key items to look into.

A boat can be well used but also well taken care of. I've also seen boats rarely used and in horrible condition from being tucked away and never looked at, too. Post some more pictures and maybe we can give you a little more of an idea of condition and price.

I wouldn't be knocking the closed cooling system. That is about a $3K install that's been added to the boat and recently it sounds. Makes life so much easier for winterizing, enjoying and just a lot easier on the motor etc.


Just a couple weeks ago, another member snagged an '02 210 that was in less than stellar condition. Solid hull, no structural cracks but a well used interior. The boat had seen better days but overall was a strong bones boat and needed a couple weeks of elbow grease to get her looking good. (http://www.planetnautique.com/vb5/fo...-me-02-san-210)

He also bought it for $16,900 and has since put a lot of sweat equity into it and it doesn't even look like the same boat!



I'm the guy he's talking about!

I have fixed up several boats and cars, I'd say if it gets check out by a professional and there isn't any structural damage and you get a good deal, why not go for it!

Just be prepared for issues, no matter what they will happen. Don't curse it when they happen. Just be prepared, do research, and fix.

Good luck!
-Pat



v/r
Robbie

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[pSchwade]

If the crash didn't ruin the shaft alignment running a chewed up prop will mess things up pretty quickly... I would probably plan on spending at least 1k on a new prop, shaft and alignment. With the dated color scheme and a single axle trailer I would probably pass on this one, you can find a better deal - you might have to wait till the end of the season though.

[BoardSkier]

Also check the heat exchanger on the closed cooling system. The system still needs raw water to cool the heat exchanger, but doesnt use raw water to cool the engine.


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[ag4ever]

Also looks like the vinyl used was not Christine. I saw no nautique logos on any interior. That would reduce the value of the boat more.

I think the value of that boat is closed to $15k than $20k.

I have hit several things in my '02 SANTE. I had on prop with each blade folded over like a flower. Vibrated like crazy at anything over idle. But all my prop strikes were at idle speed while navigating shallow water. With all that, I have had no spider cracks and no strut or alignment issues. Just fix prop and keep going.

Fixing a prop also gives you an opportunity to tweak it. I had them add a bit more cup to my property which added 3-5 MPH top speed without decreasing low end power.

The nick on that prop looks very minor, but would be enough to to cause major vibrations while run. If you test that boat in the water it must have a different prop on it because that one could mask other problems. Would not know if it was prop or strut causing the vibrations.

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