surf wave advice needed 230, 23 LSV etc

[Hugo11]

Hello everyone,

I currently have an 08 Malibu VLX. Was thinking to upgrade to a 2014 or '15 LSV as a natural progression. After researching, I understand these current models still require visible bow weight up front or suffer significant bow rise without - both of which I am wanting to avoid.

I am reading here the Nautique 230 can be set up to have as good a wave or better than even the G23. Is this the case and can any required bow weight be stored under the front cushions? I have read that there is a U shaped sack that fits but I am not sure which model years that applies to. Is anyone running a Nautique 230, fully weighted for surfing with zero visible ballast?

For anyone that has experience with the newer 23 LSV and 230, does the 230 have less bow rise under surf weight and speed?

Given all of this, would I be better off getting into a 2014 G23 for similar money to new 230?

We wakesurf 100% now. Too many wakeboard injuries over the last 15 years.

Another note, there is no nautique dealer within about a days travel to me. Does this matter for a non warranty boat in your opinion.

Thanks in advance for your advice. Happy shredding.

[cedarcreek216]

The argument has been had several times about which surfs better, the 230 or the G, but the reality is that there is an argument for both which should tell you the 230 is a more than capable surf boat. You can put an integrated bow sac in the 230 that fills off the stock pump and is under the seats an not visible. It will take up all your bow storage but that's not a huge deal. The best part about owning a Nautique is that you should not have a ton of warranty issues so the distance to the dealer isn't a killer unless you need them to do service work as well.

I would go with a new 230 over a pre-owned G, but that's just my opinion.


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[Hugo11]

Thanks for your reply. I have tried to find all of the G vs 230 threads. What in your opinion is the optimum set up for the 230? It seems there is also debate in the surf world if additional bow weight over stock is required at all. I find your opinion preferring the 230 over the G interesting. From a towing and cost perspective, that would be great.

[seveet]

My family spent quit a bit of time in both boats prior to our purchase. My wife especially appreciated the drivability of the nautique when compared to the 23 LSV. The throttle was improve in 2015 which was a nice upgrade. All of the ballast is in the compartments. What we really noticed was the the nautique wave had more push and was way more adjustable. As the primary driver, I really like the forward visability. I never need to use the bolster. Attached is a video of my son. He is close to 5 feet tall for reference.

https://vimeo.com/176323835

[Hugo11]

Awesome Video. So great to see young kids in the sport. Nothing better!! Great information. Do you personally run the additional under bow sack? What is your weight set up in that video? Also - if there a difference between the goofy and reg side wave based on prop rotation? On my VLX the goofy wave is easier to dial in and more substantial in almost all cases.

[seveet]

Goofy is better than regular. The video is rear 750's plus hard tanks and belly ballast full, NSS 0 hydrogate vert 10.6 mph. For the regular side it is the same setup except I drop 200 pounds out of the rear starboard side. I run NSS at 4 and speed 10.8. I tend to use the IBS to bring the nose down a little if we have a lot of people in the back of the boat. If I can't see without sitting on the bolster, I add bow weight. The good news is as you add more people in the boat the wave just keeps getting better. For reference, I can easily surf at the end of a 28 ft rope off the tower (standard surf rope is 20). It seems very uncomfortable to be this far behind the boat. If we a have a very small crew, I will fill everything including the IBS and throw a 400 pound bag on the floor along the seats. That wave is insane. The best news is that even with almost 4000 pounds of ballast I rarely see the RPM's above 2900 with the stock prop and the 343 engine. I personally feel that too much weight in the IBS without additional at in the rear causes the wave to loose some push. Others will disagree. It is a personal preference. I have heard a lot of people running everything full NSS at 4 and 11.2 mph.

[Jeff88]

We run our 2014 230 with 750s on top of hard tanks and no front IBS. 11.0-11.4. Usually NSS at 4. Goofy side seems just a little better than regular. But both sides have an awesome surf wave. I will say my 343 gets thirsty with full ballast and 6 people. Usually runs 3100rpm and drinks fuel pretty quick.

[DocPhil]

You will run a bow sack in an LSV. Absolutely will. I owned a 2014 23 LSV and anyone with a 23 LSV and respectable wave runs 600-1000 lbs in the bow and there is NO WAY to hide it beneath the seats

The wedge pulls the transom down significantly and makes it absolutely essential to run more bow weight in a Malibu. It's physics. Nothing more.

[toomuchuv]

230 is an awesome surf boat! We also run 750s on top of the hard tanks and no front weight. I just speed up to lengthen the wave. I feel that I now have totally "dialed-in" for both sides by filling port full and starboard about 5/8 to 3/4. Makes each side the same and great for switches. Speed is at 12.8.....

[Hugo11]

For those that did integrate a bow sack, was it an immediate, marked improvement or debatable? Interesting that some report using it only as a tweak to bring the nose down. As opposed to the 650-1000 lbs monsters that some LSV owners seem to deem essential. Doc Phil also made an interesting point about the wedge pulling the transom down aggressively . I was never in the market for a Nautique but this feedback seems to confirm what i picked up on from my reading. That the 230 produces less bow rise despite being heavily rear weighted and is capable of producing a quality wave without visible bow weight and potentially without the need for a hidden bow sack. I find that interesting given that to date, the G seems to be the only other high end wake boat that's achieved this.

[hondaprlud]

I have an older 230 that isn't equipped with NSS, but I run 750s on top of the hard tanks in the rear and the IBS piggybacked on the front hard tank. Awesome wave.

[cedarcreek216]

For those that did integrate a bow sack, was it an immediate, marked improvement or debatable? Interesting that some report using it only as a tweak to bring the nose down. As opposed to the 650-1000 lbs monsters that some LSV owners seem to deem essential. Doc Phil also made an interesting point about the wedge pulling the transom down aggressively . I was never in the market for a Nautique but this feedback seems to confirm what i picked up on from my reading. That the 230 produces less bow rise despite being heavily rear weighted and is capable of producing a quality wave without visible bow weight and potentially without the need for a hidden bow sack. I find that interesting given that to date, the G seems to be the only other high end wake boat that's achieved this.

The 210's will produce a very respectable surf wave with not exposed bow weight or extreme bow rise as well. I am confident it has more to do with how NSS works opposed to how Malibu uses the wedge to create drag. A lot less bow rise from dead weight than actual drag.


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[Neverenough]

Piggyback 750s, 500 piggy under bow seats that's never full. Then adjust with speed NSS and hydro gate. I'll probably not buy a G now. I don't think you can beat the 230.

Nautique please put a cooler in the floor of the 230!!!!

[DocPhil]

The 210's will produce a very respectable surf wave with not exposed bow weight or extreme bow rise as well. I am confident it has more to do with how NSS works opposed to how Malibu uses the wedge to create drag. A lot less bow rise from dead weight than actual drag.


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I disagree.

Here's another example: I sacked the snot out of my 2015 X-30 with tons of weight in the rear and it didn't need bow weight. In fact, bow weight made it worse. And these boats use Gen2 which is a totally different system for creating a wave than NSS. So a sacked out Gen2 X-30 performs similarly to a 230. Why? Answer: No wedge.

Malibus absolutely need bow weight due to the wedge. Think about it. You have similar weight in each boat (sacks, lead, whatever) but for some reason the Malibu needs bow weight and the Nautique doesn't? In fact, it is really the perfect comparison. NSS and SG use similar technology in creating a surf wave. A horizontally deploying tab, flap, etc. The physics are the same. The only difference between the boats on a macro scale is Malibu has a wedge which creates a ton of downward thrust (which requires bow weight to offset it) and the Nautique uses NCRS or hydrogate (glorified trim tab)

I don't get the argument that it has to more with how NSS works. NSS works very similarly to SG. Slap a wedge on a Nautique with NSS and I promise you it will need bow weight. Ask this same question over on TMC. I am willing to be the folks over there with 23 LSVs will agree with me.

[Evening Shade]

DocPhil,

Maybe I misread it, but it seems that cedarcreek216 was saying the same thing you are saying. When he said "drag" I think he's referring to the down force that is created by dragging the wedge behind the prop. I used to have a 23LSV and I agree that there is a lot of bow lift with the wedge down, but I have to admit that there is a lot of bow rise with my 210 if I don't put some weight in the bow.