G23 Tow rigs with pics

[core-rider]

If Chad's rig is "vintage" than mine must be ancient history! 1993 Ford Lightning - 2003 SANTE

[Sailfun]

Way below a normal F-150. A quick look through the online specs, the 2017 (non-raptors) with the Eco-Boost are rated for over 11K towing.

Keep in mind that most tow vehicles are rated with small rims and tires. Increasing rim/tire size can cause a large reduction in tow rating.

[Beg4wake]

Not sure I agree that there is an easy lawsuit. Changing only the axle ratio or going to a smaller engine can dramatically reduce the rated towing capacity. Same brakes, same suspension, same truck except one will accelerate slower and will have a harder time maintaining its speed going uphill.

I believe to win the lawsuit it would be necessary to prove that being overweight is the cause of the accident, simply being over the manufacturer's rated limit isn't automatic cause.

That being said, if I towed my boat frequently or for long trips I would definitely want the best possible setup, including engine, axle ratio, etc. If towing only involves going from storage to the lake in the spring then a return trip in the fall, engines and axles wouldn't be a major concern.

Side Note: I like the Raptor but prefer the Ram Rebel, the Rebel (Crew Cab, Hemi, 4x4, 3.92 axle) is rated for 9,950 lbs.

Thats is a big fat negative sir! I personally know somebody spending 5-10 years for manslaughter for this EXACT reason. He was towing over weight, couldn't stop in an emergency braking situation and rear ended a car, going over the top of it completely demolishing the cab and killed the driver. The judge wasted no time at all slamming the hammer on him simply because he was overweight. Oh and btw...he only towed the boat 5-7 miles to get to the lake.

[Beg4wake]

The whole reason the Raptor has such a low towing capacity is because of the suspension. It's an off road suspension meaning when a lot of weight is added to the rear, such as with a boat trailer, the rear end of the truck is pushed down, which alleviates weight over the front axels, which in turn reduces traction on the front tires thus reducing steering and braking properties. This is the reason why 250/2500 trucks have a higher towing capacity even when they might have the same motor as the 150/1500 series trucks. This is also the reason they ride a lot stiffer...because of the stiffer rear leaf springs. One thing you can do to help with this is to get a set of air bags added to the rear to help level the ride back out when the trailer weight is added...however, that kinda takes a little away from the reason of buying an off road truck like the Raptor in the first place. Unless you're only really buying the truck for looks and not off roading, in which case the air bags would work well.

[SANonTellico]

Thats is a big fat negative sir! I personally know somebody spending 5-10 years for manslaughter for this EXACT reason. He was towing over weight, couldn't stop in an emergency braking situation and rear ended a car, going over the top of it completely demolishing the cab and killed the driver. The judge wasted no time at all slamming the hammer on him simply because he was overweight. Oh and btw...he only towed the boat 5-7 miles to get to the lake.

Beg4wake: This is what was someone posted and what I was replying to: "8k on paper makes for a real easy lawsuit if you ever get in a wreck while you're over loaded, which you are... whether it's your fault or not."

Based on your comments, you seem to be in full agreement with that statement, so let's setup a scenario.

I went to the Ford website (https://www.ford.com/resources/ford/..._F150_Sep7.pdf) and found that a F150 Supercab 4x4 with 5L engine can tow:
- 9,000 lbs with 3.31 gear ratio
- 10,900 lbs with 3.73 gear ratio

Let's assume you and I had one of these trucks (this would never happen since I prefer Ram trucks....), they're identical in every way except you have 3.73 gears and I have 3.31 gears and we're each towing a 10,000 lb trailer with the proper weight distribution hitch, trailer brakes, etc. The only difference is the gear ratio.

Three scenarios:
1) We're stopped at a red light and we get rear ended
2) We're driving down the highway and someone changes lanes into our trailer
3) A car runs a red light as we enter an intersection and we hit it

Based on the comment that was made "easy lawsuit......whether it's your fault or not", in all 3 scenarios I'm an easy lawsuit but you would have no risk. I disagree. My lawyer may have to prove that my gear ratio had no impact to the accident and that my truck had appropriate brakes and suspension (remember, the same brakes and suspension as yours) for the load I was towing.

As a separate note, if you change your truck from the factory setup you may be affecting the manufacturers rated trailering limits. Example; if you install a lift kit on your truck in the example above, your 10,900 lb limit could decrease significantly. If you get into a bad accident and the injured person decides to sue, they would likely sue you and Ford. Ford would quickly show that their trailering ratings are correct but the truck had been modified. If it can be shown that your modifications reduced the trailering limits then you may be found to be liable, even though you're below the factory limits.

To be clear, if the tow vehicle has inadequate brakes, suspension, frame/body integrity, etc. then there is a clear safety issue and it should not tow the trailer under any circumstances.

I certainly don't know the details of the fatal accident that you mentioned but if the brakes, suspension, etc. weren't rated for the load that was being towed then I agree, that's completely unsafe and indefensible.

[DocPhil]

I drove a 2017 Super Duty diesel the other day and it was a BEAST. The new PS is awesome. I would have definitely went SD but not my coin to spend.

I'm interested to see pics of the raptor towing a G.

Bevostein on page 1. You need to teach your son not to wear his shoes on the boat...jussayin

[Beg4wake]

Beg4wake: This is what was someone posted and what I was replying to: "8k on paper makes for a real easy lawsuit if you ever get in a wreck while you're over loaded, which you are... whether it's your fault or not."

Based on your comments, you seem to be in full agreement with that statement, so let's setup a scenario.

I went to the Ford website (https://www.ford.com/resources/ford/..._F150_Sep7.pdf) and found that a F150 Supercab 4x4 with 5L engine can tow:
- 9,000 lbs with 3.31 gear ratio
- 10,900 lbs with 3.73 gear ratio

Let's assume you and I had one of these trucks (this would never happen since I prefer Ram trucks....), they're identical in every way except you have 3.73 gears and I have 3.31 gears and we're each towing a 10,000 lb trailer with the proper weight distribution hitch, trailer brakes, etc. The only difference is the gear ratio.

Three scenarios:
1) We're stopped at a red light and we get rear ended
2) We're driving down the highway and someone changes lanes into our trailer
3) A car runs a red light as we enter an intersection and we hit it

Based on the comment that was made "easy lawsuit......whether it's your fault or not", in all 3 scenarios I'm an easy lawsuit but you would have no risk. I disagree. My lawyer may have to prove that my gear ratio had no impact to the accident and that my truck had appropriate brakes and suspension (remember, the same brakes and suspension as yours) for the load I was towing.

As a separate note, if you change your truck from the factory setup you may be affecting the manufacturers rated trailering limits. Example; if you install a lift kit on your truck in the example above, your 10,900 lb limit could decrease significantly. If you get into a bad accident and the injured person decides to sue, they would likely sue you and Ford. Ford would quickly show that their trailering ratings are correct but the truck had been modified. If it can be shown that your modifications reduced the trailering limits then you may be found to be liable, even though you're below the factory limits.

To be clear, if the tow vehicle has inadequate brakes, suspension, frame/body integrity, etc. then there is a clear safety issue and it should not tow the trailer under any circumstances.

I certainly don't know the details of the fatal accident that you mentioned but if the brakes, suspension, etc. weren't rated for the load that was being towed then I agree, that's completely unsafe and indefensible.

Ok ok...I'll give that one to you...I ONLY meant if it's your fault! Especially if there is a fatality involved. And you're right, in your scenario, your lawyer COULD argue that the gear ratio had no impact on the accident, and you could get away with it as long as it was a minor accident. But in all honesty, if somebody got killed, they're more than likely going to throw the book at you simply because you exceeded the manufacturers rating (because in their eyes "somebody's gotta pay"). If you knowingly tow something overweight, or even unknowingly (you are supposed to know the weight ratings of your tow vehicle and the load you are towing), then opposing lawyers will likely have no problem proving you are at fault. And in the event of a fatality, they will look all the way down to the gear ratio, the hitch set up, even the weight rating on the ball itself (at least they did in my friends case)! Plus, the scenario you gave is borderline on the weight being towed, whereas in this given scenario, we know the truck in question has a max tow rating of 8k lbs (this due to the suspension set up), and the load being towed will likely be over that limit (my '16 G23, on dual axle trailer, loaded down with all gear and full tank runs about 9500lbs). I personally won't tell somebody they should or shouldn't tow something, Lord knows I've done it. I just wanted to make aware of possible consequences. I just see all to often a lot of people will think just because it's possible, they can do it. Seeing the results of my friends case really opened my eyes.

[Quinner]

Beg, that is a tough deal about your friend and of course the victim. What exactly was the issue(s) that made it criminal??

[Kenv]

Quinner....isn't the reason in the post above.....the fact that he was towing overweight and someone that he hit died? Unless I'm missing something.

[Tallredrider]

Beg, that is a tough deal about your friend and of course the victim. What exactly was the issue(s) that made it criminal??

I think that is sort of the definition of manslaughter, when you kill someone, but were not intentionally out to hurt them. In this case, he was determined to be negligent, and therefore responsible for what happened.

[Kenv]

I drove a 2017 Super Duty diesel the other day and it was a BEAST. The new PS is awesome. I would have definitely went SD but not my coin to spend.

I'm interested to see pics of the raptor towing a G.

Bevostein on page 1. You need to teach your son not to wear his shoes on the boat...jussayin

Doc...Post #74 above has the Raptor pulling the G. I'm one post below and that pic of my Silver '17 SD was the first time I hooked it up and pulled since I got it. It definitely gets the job done!!

[Schwiiing]

If the G23 is approaching 9500 lbs when fueled and loaded, why the heck are the dealers selling them with tandem axle trailers with GVWR of 8400 lbs? Are guys running 1100 lbs of tongue weight??

[DocPhil]

Beg4wake did you weigh your G23 ?

[Beg4wake]

Beg, that is a tough deal about your friend and of course the victim. What exactly was the issue(s) that made it criminal??

Tallredrider is correct. It was deemed manslaughter over involuntary manslaughter because the courts decided he should have known the limits of his tow vehicle.

[Beg4wake]

Beg4wake did you weigh your G23 ?

Yup! I did, however I don't know how accurate the scale really read. It was a scale used by my company to determine the weight of a load in a truck before and after a trailer is emptied. It honestly may be off by hundred pounds or two.