G23 vs New Xstar vs M235

[fearocks]

Are we talking $185k range for the M235?

Yes, it was fully loaded for $185k

[fearocks]

The dealer invoice costs of these boats are generally available on the internet. The G23 MSRP is marked up about 42%. The M235 about 47% at least for the base models in both cases. My experience is that the same mark up percentage is also applied to options. It looks like the M235 may not be available soon as it is not shown in the 2019 model year. It has not exactly been an overwhelming success.

See: https://seedealercost.com/marine/browse/manufacturer

They're making an engine swap on the M235 for 2020, where it's going to have the in-house made engines with the GM block. I've toured the boat, but will be taking it for a spin on Wednesday. Also, thanks for the link, I'll check that out on all three boats!

[fearocks]

We surfed the 2019 X24 last week in preparation for the Northwest Wake Surf Open competition. This particular boat was a demo boat with 1200 lbs of lead. It had a solid wave but it was a bit steep for competition surfing (due to the extra weight) we had to run the ballast partially full to compensate. But I'm sure people wanting to carve and do airs would find it very fun with this much weight and full ballast.

My observations were that the boat looks very nice. We previously surfed a stock X24. It produced a solid wave good for surfing but probably best for skim because it lacks a lip that can help substantially with airs. It does not have the rear locker storage of the G23, which is a deal killer for me as we keep 4 to 6 boards on our boat at all times and I don't want them laying around or baking in the sun on the bimini. I noticed that the Sea Deck looked unevenly installed in some cases, and we had a few times where the surf system would not engage, and required a left / right switch of the surf system to reset the surf wave. Finally, a boat at this price should have a purpose built tower. To me the X24 tower looks like the product of a high school shop project, not the tower that belongs on a $170K surf boat.

In my opinion the M235 is a white elephant. They sit on dealer lots for many months. If the MasterCraft dealers can't sell them how will you during a resale?

Here is a video of the X24 wave. https://youtu.be/NmMo7g0ZQXI

You took the words right out of my mouth on the bimini for the X24, not to mention I expect the sound system is going to be nowhere near the JL, or Wet. I'm 6'3", so I like the extra room behind the captain's chair and on the bow of the X24 and M235, but then again, how often will I actually be sitting there. Also, the interior of the X24 didn't seem on par with the G23. We didn't test the G25, but sitting in someone else's felt a little too large without having a full crew. We tested the G23 this past Friday and had a great time and planning to test the M235 on Wednesday and the X24 the week after. Thank you for the video, I showed it to my other half, who's the lake rat this boat "is actually for" and she said the wave looked wider, but not as pronounced as the G23's. I assume that's your son doing the surfing... he definitely looks like he knows what he's doing!

[Roscoef16]

I’m glad to see this discussion still ongoing...I’ve since had the opportunity to solidify my earlier post from a year ago and stand by everything I said. Since then, I’ve plumbed my coffins with a 640 in the left and 460 in the right (wakemakers) and piggy backed off the factory pumps. The wave is very firm and the pocket is quite large. I’ve also spent quite a bit of time on a ‘19 RI237...and while the wave is certainly large and very nice looking, it is somewhat sloppy. You will not get the launch you get off a G on a Centurion-at least few that I’ve seen can, and we have some at the near pro level. The fit and finish on the Centurion is certain to improve in light of their partnership with Correct Craft, but for now, it’s not as good.

I think it is also worth mentioning that the 2020 G will have the rear lounge seats for those who use them, and there isn’t a single boat in class that has the rear storage of the G (including the X24). We use them, as someone else posted, for storage of several boards and I love that aspect about the G. My M235 bros are still having the occasional screen issue (one so bad he got a new boat), and I believe-fundamentally-that the Lenco tab system is inferior from an engineering perspective (Lenco tabs on MC and Centurion). That discussion is covered quite well on the MC forum, as I recall, so I won’t try here.

All told, and in full disclosure, I am going to order another G sometime within the next year. I fought the G hysteria when it first came out and felt the bling was way too blingy for me blingy is a word for today only). I had 2 MCs prior and while I love their lines and looks, I’m just too happy with my G than to consider anything else. To this, and a final note, I’m mildly surprised no one has mentioned the Supras. They’re still a bit unknown to me, though seem to be gaining some popularity in Texas (Parker Payne obviously helped that one!). Best of luck in your pursuits as you consider the options ... there’s never a perfect boat, but I’m happy as one can be on my G.

[fearocks]

I’m glad to see this discussion still ongoing...I’ve since had the opportunity to solidify my earlier post from a year ago and stand by everything I said. Since then, I’ve plumbed my coffins with a 640 in the left and 460 in the right (wakemakers) and piggy backed off the factory pumps. The wave is very firm and the pocket is quite large. I’ve also spent quite a bit of time on a ‘19 RI237...and while the wave is certainly large and very nice looking, it is somewhat sloppy. You will not get the launch you get off a G on a Centurion-at least few that I’ve seen can, and we have some at the near pro level. The fit and finish on the Centurion is certain to improve in light of their partnership with Correct Craft, but for now, it’s not as good.

I think it is also worth mentioning that the 2020 G will have the rear lounge seats for those who use them, and there isn’t a single boat in class that has the rear storage of the G (including the X24). We use them, as someone else posted, for storage of several boards and I love that aspect about the G. My M235 bros are still having the occasional screen issue (one so bad he got a new boat), and I believe-fundamentally-that the Lenco tab system is inferior from an engineering perspective (Lenco tabs on MC and Centurion). That discussion is covered quite well on the MC forum, as I recall, so I won’t try here.

All told, and in full disclosure, I am going to order another G sometime within the next year. I fought the G hysteria when it first came out and felt the bling was way too blingy for me blingy is a word for today only). I had 2 MCs prior and while I love their lines and looks, I’m just too happy with my G than to consider anything else. To this, and a final note, I’m mildly surprised no one has mentioned the Supras. They’re still a bit unknown to me, though seem to be gaining some popularity in Texas (Parker Payne obviously helped that one!). Best of luck in your pursuits as you consider the options ... there’s never a perfect boat, but I’m happy as one can be on my G.

I'd heard something about the 2020's possibly getting the rear seats, however wasn't sure, but that would be great, as that's something we like about the X24; the M235 has them, but they're a little shallow. I don't know a lot about the Supra, Tige, Centurion, Supreme, Moomba, Axis, Vortex, Yamaha and HeyDay (I think I got them all) ; I sat in a Tige, Yamaha, and Vortex on the showroom floor and looked in an Axis, but most of my narrowing was done online until I got to the Nautique, Malibu, and Mastercraft.

[Wayward]

greggmck - I have to agree that MC needs to refresh the tower. That said, I love the fact that it is far superior for function and ease of use. Bimini is 10x faster to deploy/retract. Tower is much easier/faster to fold. Boards don’t hit the speakers when you turn the racks in. Stores 12 boards with optional second set of racks. Nothing in the way of the driver when folded. Etc.

definitely a function over form type design.


Roscoef16 Nautique also uses Lenco actuators, and they are the same unit that is used on MCs and Centurions. I had a couple fail on my G23s. All the manufacturers should be hammering on Lenco to build a better product.


I’ll be really interested in seeing what the refreshed 2020 G23 is all about! If they knock it out of the park again, I might have to jump back for 2021 or 2022.

[Roscoef16]

@ Wayward-I should’ve been more clear and will blame that on using an iPhone to answer! My point regarding the (lack of) engineering was that the ram/actuator controlling the tab used in the MC and Centurion design is outside/perpendicular to the tab. Both saw a rash of issues (in the recent past) involving water entering the ram-which then led to complaints regarding wave consistency. I worked with several here locally to try and figure it out-one had water travel through the actuator itself and then up the sleeve which fried the entire system. MCs fix was a small baffle inside the actuator to keep water out; Lenco has since made the actuator as more of a closed unit. However, and where I really didn’t go far enough in my point, is that the design itself-of forcing the tab downward vice outward puts an awful lot of load on the actuator, and that by itself is why I think MC and Centurion will continue to have inconsistencies in their wave. Is it significantly more in down vs out? Probably not, but the design is nearly identical in MC and Centurion-and the complaints have been very similar.

Totally agree with your point regarding manufacturers/etc...outside of a Malibu copyright, I think we will see some new tab designs in the near future as well. I also loved my MC tower; it was far better in ease of use-they really got that right and I miss it. As I said, no perfect boat...some closer than others...good luck.

[fearocks]

G23 (July 12, 2019) TEST IMPRESSION

We left at 11 o'clock A.M. on a Friday morning to a nearby lake (Lake Thunderbird), with three of us on board with about 150 lbs of bags in each rear storage. There weren't a lot of people out and found a nice area to test, except for a few PWC's who kept coming too close. My thoughts of the boat itself, while spending some time outside of the showroom floor are:

Pros:

• Great fit & finish
• The floor cooler was useful
• The sound system was great
• The rear walkway was nice
• I had a lot of legroom in the captain's seat
• The bimini felt extremely sturdy
• Plenty of storage
• The mini stern cooler is a nice touch
• The stern thruster is great
• The 2020 wireless charging addition will be nice
• Exhaust into water
• Great screen layout

Cons:

• Easy to hit your head on the overhead speakers
• At 6'2" with a 35" inseam, the bow seats were a little cramped
• The rear-facing seat behind the captain's chair was also a tight fit
• The phallic-looking retracted bimini
• No rear lounge seats, although I've heard that's going to change for 2020
• No reclining option in the captain's chair

About 45 min. in, one of the dealer's friends happened to be in the area and joined us, which is when things got fun. I couldn't get on the water, recovering from a snowboarding injury, however, my girl was able to get out there and this is what I noticed:

Pros:

• Very pronounced wave with a nice lip
• Got onto plane very quick with a smooth ride
• Wave formed quick, but not as quick as the X24
• No water spray inside

Cons:

• Small pocket that put you right upon the stern
• Short wave didn't give a lot of room to roam

Note: She's a water skier, not a surfer, so this was her first time and she loved it, even to the point to where she wants to stop wakeboarding and only surf and ski now. Here's a video

SPECIAL THANKS TO SHAWN (OWNER) @ NORRIS MARINE IN NORMAN, OK

[fearocks]

M235 (July 17, 2019) TEST IMPRESSION

We left at 11 o'clock A.M. on a Wednesday morning to a nearby lake (Lake Arcadia), with four of us on board with the extra ballast bags plumbed into each rear storage. There weren't a lot of people out and found a nice area to test, except being a small lake and the wind blowing, we had a few waves, but nothing too bad. My thoughts of the boat itself, while spending some time outside of the showroom floor are:

Pros:

• The sound system was decent but not on par with the G23
• The rear walkway was nice
• I had legroom in the captain's chair, but not as much as the G23
• The bimini felt sturdy
• I had more legroom in the bow, with that extra 1/2 ft.
• It felt more spacious inside
• The rear lounge seats were nice, however, a little shallow compared to the X24
• Nice that I could wrap the bimini up and completely out of the way
• Nice tower clearance for a tall person
• Exhaust into water
• Great screen layout

Cons:

• The fit & finish were not on par with the G23, or X24
• It made a lot of noise; I'm not referring to the motor, but creaks and other strange sounds
• Lack of storage
• Had issues connecting two phones to the sound system, the third was the charm
• Bimini took a lot longer to collapse
• No stern thruster like the G23

I still couldn't get on the water, recovering from a snowboarding injury, however, my girl was able to get out there and this is what I noticed:

Pros:

• Larger wave
• The wave customization with the Wedge is nice
• Larger pocket
• A quicker and faster boat

Cons:

• A rougher ride overall
• A decent amount of bow rise
• A rougher wave
• It took longer for the wave to form each time with the Gate system
• Motor was loud
• I did get some water spray inside

Note: She's a water skier, not a surfer, so this was only her second time and she still loves it, even to the point to where she wants to stop wakeboarding and only surf and ski now. Here's a video

SPECIAL THANKS TO TODD (OWNER) & SKYLER @ WILSON WATERSPORTS IN EDMOND, OK

[FEVB]

How was the test?

[fearocks]

How was the test?

Just updated my original post with my findings

[Wayward]

@ Wayward-I should’ve been more clear and will blame that on using an iPhone to answer! My point regarding the (lack of) engineering was that the ram/actuator controlling the tab used in the MC and Centurion design is outside/perpendicular to the tab. Both saw a rash of issues (in the recent past) involving water entering the ram-which then led to complaints regarding wave consistency. I worked with several here locally to try and figure it out-one had water travel through the actuator itself and then up the sleeve which fried the entire system. MCs fix was a small baffle inside the actuator to keep water out; Lenco has since made the actuator as more of a closed unit. However, and where I really didn’t go far enough in my point, is that the design itself-of forcing the tab downward vice outward puts an awful lot of load on the actuator, and that by itself is why I think MC and Centurion will continue to have inconsistencies in their wave. Is it significantly more in down vs out? Probably not, but the design is nearly identical in MC and Centurion-and the complaints have been very similar.

Totally agree with your point regarding manufacturers/etc...outside of a Malibu copyright, I think we will see some new tab designs in the near future as well. I also loved my MC tower; it was far better in ease of use-they really got that right and I miss it. As I said, no perfect boat...some closer than others...good luck.

I agree with that assessment, and had heard about those issues. Ironically, water inside the actuators was the issue I had with my G's, but they didn't push water up the harness. I think they failed because they got some water in them, and then froze while being stored over the winter. I have heard of the issue in MC, Centurion, Supra/Moomba, and Malibu/Axis (before Bu switched to hydraulic actuators), with the deflection issues, added load, and water in the harness. MC now has an entirely new actuator that is a different design, and includes position sensing. Hopefully there will be a lot less issues with the new one. I have been lucky so far with mine, but my new boat has the new actuators, so I will see how those go as well.

[fearocks]

X24 (July 25, 2019) TEST IMPRESSION

We left at 3 o'clock P.M. on a Thursday afternoon to a nearby lake (Lake Thunderbird... the same lake we tested the G23), with three of us on board with no extra weight. There weren't a lot of people out and testing in the same area we tested the G23. My thoughts of the boat itself, while spending some time outside of the showroom floor are:

Pros:

• The rear walkway was nice
• I had legroom in the captain's chair, but not as much as the G23
• The bimini felt sturdy
• It had the most legroom in the bow, with that extra 1 ft.
• It felt the most spacious inside with a great layout
• The rear lounge seats were nice and deep
• Nice that I could wrap the bimini up and completely out the way
• The seats were amazingly comfortable
• The seating didn't get hot like it did on the G23 and M235
• Fit & finish were nice; maybe not as nice as the G23, but very close
• Lounge cooler is nice, however not as convenient as the G23
• The dual-screen has a nice separation, which provided a cleaner layout than the G23, however not a bright, but more stable than the M235

Cons:

• THE SOUND SYSTEM
• Lack of storage
• Straight exhaust; not into water

Note: Although it had fewer negatives than both the G23 and M235, the lack of a good sound system is big for me!

I still couldn't get on the water, recovering from a snowboarding injury, however, my girl was able to get out there and this is what I noticed:

Pros:

• Large and defined wave; best looking out of the G23 & M235
• No extra weight, or shifting people around the boat required
• Larger surf pocket
• A quick and nimble boat
• Switchback Ballast
• Quickest forming wave

Cons:

• She complained about not being able to really hear the music
• She complained about smelling the exhaust
• I did get some water spray inside
• A little bow rise; much less than the M235, but more than the G23
• No stern thruster, like the G23

Note: She's a water skier, not a surfer, so this was only her third time and she still loves it, even to the point to where she wants to stop wakeboarding and only surf and ski. Since there were only three of us on board, it was hard for me to catch any good videos. Here's a video I managed to catch, but not her best of the run, however, this was the first time she was able to ride rope free!

SPECIAL THANKS TO BRIAN @ NICHOLS MARINE IN NORMAN, OK

[Gtsum2]

Thanks for taking the time with the write ups!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[fearocks]

Thanks for taking the time with the write ups!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Thank you! Putting it down helps with making my comparisons and who knows, may help someone else