Problem Models/Years to stay away from?

[UFG8RMIKE]

Coming from an extensive offshore fishing environment, I’m well aware of specific outboard engines with specific issues or years to avoid but I know nothing of the inboard wake/surf market. I’m in the market and shopping for a used boat and I see a number of relatively low hour <500 hr wake boats with replaced or rebuilt engines? The loads the boats are under, I’m sure play a role.

The general rule for outboards is 1000 hours or 10 years of problem free reliability with many doubling the hours within that 10 year period. However, In a salt environment, you’re often on borrowed time after the 10 year mark, regardless of the specific manufacturer.

I realize things can be all over the map, with some going 1000 plus hours with zero issues, but what’s the rule for a freshwater only inboard? Where does PCM stand amongst others in the industry. As far as build, and layout, I’m sold on Nautique over the others but don’t know much about PCM engines. Are there any specific models or years I should stay away from? I understand the PCM 5.3 may be one to avoid? Are there any models/years considered bullet proof? I’m considering both newer style, 2013 and up G21 or SAN 230, or an older garage queen with low hours <500.

I suspect improper winterization for northern boats might be a significant contributing factor to engine failures, so maybe best to avoid older used boats in northern climates?

[Nautiquehunter]

09 was the first year of the LINC system . Its a tough call the newer the boat the less wear is on it but the complexity of the boat gets greater every year. Today's boats are floating spaceships with no redundant backup systems . They are so complicated you need a nuclear scientist to fix them not to mention the cost involved.

[UFG8RMIKE]

That is a really good point, what do you do 10 years down the road when you have computer control issues or a non functioning display and nothing is supported. Electronics in the offshore market go completely extinct after about 10 years with no service or support thereafter. Only option is to upgrade the entire system, displays, transducers, etc. which I don't think is possible here. Not to mention the displays are custom fit sizes and have 100% certainty that 10 years from now, there will be no direct replacement option. At least on an offshore center console, you have a large dashboard to work with either by filling in and recutting your opening or covering with starboard.


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[bturner]

The horror stories are already coming out on flat panel display replacements with the average price for a replacement going for anywhere between $2K and $4K. I had mixed feelings on this when I bought my current boat and opted to go with a boat without the system. As cool as the link system is once the warranty is gone it's almost as expensive to replace the display as it is to buy a long block for an engine swap and that is insane.

[shag]

That is a really good point, what do you do 10 years down the road when you have computer control issues or a non functioning display and nothing is supported. Electronics in the offshore market go completely extinct after about 10 years with no service or support thereafter. Only option is to upgrade the entire system, displays, transducers, etc. which I don't think is possible here. Not to mention the displays are custom fit sizes and have 100% certainty that 10 years from now, there will be no direct replacement option. At least on an offshore center console, you have a large dashboard to work with either by filling in and recutting your opening or covering with starboard.


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Nautique Hunter is right.. I the it was late 2009-10 for line. I had a 2009 230 with gauges and wish I still had it. (now have 2008 230). The tech problem in time is most def a concern. I am even going through heck right now as the gateway box on some boats (even this one with gauges) only allows the hour meter to read 999.9... It will display hours after that and there is supposedly no fix because the 'gateway box is obsolete'... Bull****... I don't think I will ever get a boat with Linc, unless they make a redundant system (maybe a set of gauges that are in a compartment somewhere so you at least have a back up...

[Nautiquehunter]

I have the same problem with my hour meter on my 08 210 stopped at 999.9 Nautique blames Faria and Faria says they built it to Nautiques specs. In the end there is no support or fix for this problem. I would be pretty pissed if I dropped 250k on a Paragon and 9 years later it was unfixable do to lac of support of electrical systems. I installed a 20.00 hour gauge in the engine compartment so I can track hours for oil changes. Hard to believe this problem was overlooked even harder to believe there is no fix. I think new boats are like BMW and Mercedes great when new but endless money pits as they get older .

[UFG8RMIKE]

Ya'll are pretty much dead on with the correlation w BMW. Wish I could just lease a new g21 for 2 yrs and be out before warranty expires, then roll into a new one. Owning one of these tech/electronics heavy boats long term will likely prove to be a costly decision. I just can't see purchasing any 6-10 year old nautique with a LINC system. I can either go new, or back to gauges. New prices are so outrageous, then again, 10 year old used boats are selling very close to what they cost new back then too. Catch 22.

Soo....Best surf wake from non LINC boat?

Any specific engines to stay away from, other than the 5.3 and possibly the excalibur?

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[UFG8RMIKE]

-2013-2015 G23 - hull design, forward spray, transmission
-2010-2016 LINC boats
-Excalibur 330 engine
-Drive shaft issues with certain year G23?

what else u got, any particular engine, model years considered to best/bullet proof? ZR-6? Right now, I’m considering a new G23, G21, GS22, or low hour 2008-2009 SANTE to avoid LINC all together

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[MTRBTR]

What is wrong with the 330 Excalibur?

[UFG8RMIKE]

What is wrong with the 330 Excalibur?

I assume that's up for debate, for now it's just something I've canceled off my list while trying to narrow my choices.

[Quinner]

Curious why you listed the Excalibur as something to stay away from, if lack of HP for a larger boat, that makes sense however I have 700hrs on an 05' that has been very reliable outside of fuel pumps and the distributor cap both having short life spans

[NautiqueJeff]

I agree. I haven't heard of any major issues with the Excalibur either.

[charlesml3]

The horror stories are already coming out on flat panel display replacements

Where are these "horror stories?" I think there have been a couple on P.N. here that were warranty items. The only other one I know is that 230 on Youtube that was rebuilt after it got smashed and half sank in a storm.

Anyway, the days of analog gauges are over. There's no going back. With all of the systems on these wake boats the gauge sprawl becomes a real problem. There simply isn't enough room to get everything in. Before the multi-function flat panels came about we were seeing gauges down near your feet because there was no room left on the dash.

[bturner]

Once again we'll agree to disagree.
So you're premise is that there will be no bad displays as these boats age and no one has had a failure outside warranty? That would be a first. As to current failures, there have been a couple people here and on the MC site looking for displays. I will concede it's no avalanche of failures but If you're the one looking for an older display (if you can find them) they start at about $4K and for those of us without deep pockets that is a horror story. If you're fortunate enough to swap boats out every 2 - 3 years then great it'll never be an issue for you. But those of us in the secondary market or those that plan on buying a "forever boat" you now have to consider the possibility that instead of a $50 dollar gauge or $400 MDC going bad that you could be on the hook for a $4000 display, and that's just for the part. Lastly, who and where do you go to, to fix these systems later? Anything outside the dealer network is going to get sketchy quick. Anything in the dealer network is going to get expensive even quicker.
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"Anyway, the days of analog gauges are over. There's no going back. With all of the systems on these wake boats the gauge sprawl becomes a real problem. There simply isn't enough room to get everything in. Before the multi-function flat panels came about we were seeing gauges down near your feet because there was no room left on the dash."

We'll agree to disagree here again also. At lease to the degree that a large display system is the only way to achieve a boat.
MC is offering most if not all their models with the choice between analog looking gauges (unless you've done a swap true analog gauges have been gone for quite some time) with a single 7" display and they don't seem to have any problem finding room. I was just at the Detroit boat show last week and they had as many boats there with the gauge package as the large, multi display versions. The salesman told me many customers prefer the gauge package and going that direction offers a considerable savings over the display laden models.

If you believe in learning from history all you need to do is look back to the 2000 - 2005 time frame and the gauge systems from then to see the future here as well. Take a look at the replacement gauge solutions offered for the Nautiques or the threads on analog conversions for the MasterCrafts that people are doing. Yeah, no problem with those systems either, right? Now multiply the cost of those repairs/retrofits by 10 to see what your future repair cost may look like on a 10 - 15 year old boat with multiple displays.

Everything man makes breaks eventually and these display systems are no exception. The primary concern I have when looking at these boats is not with the original owner with the warranty but that second or third owner that will be wondering how long these systems will hold up for them. As stated above this is not going to be a small maintenance item to replace but one approaching the same cost of significant engine or drive train repair.

[UFG8RMIKE]

The horror stories haven't begin because we are still within a reasonable 10 year period of 1st manufacture. Service and replacement parts are still available, but what happens when they aren't? Its beyond that where the issues will arise. I have close to 50k worth of electronics in my offshore boat but that doesn't bother me as much as the custom LINC setup in these boats. Installing an entire new updated system on an offshore boat is relatively easy, but that's not possible here with custom screen sizing and the level of integration with the rest of the boat.

Who here is still running a 10 year old laptop? I can't seem to get one to last longer than about 6 before it's a throw away.