Details..."Finish-Out"

[RDT-G23]

I'll start this thread by saying-(as I have many times before)-I love Nautiques. I am unashamedly a fan boy-and believe the product is the best in class for this kind of boat. I'm talking craft specifically designed for towed water sports, not runabaouts or bow-riders. Accordingly, I love my Paragon; it is a wonderful boat. I was among the first in the US to order, and have not looked back since.

Now that I have the niceties out of the way, I want opinions of forum members after I provide my own on "finish-out". Last week the dealer and I completed the 25 hour service- and I mentioned to him that this boat seems to be vastly "drier" than my G23 when it comes to water needing to be drained via the t-handle hull plug. He mumbled something about improved "water management" (BTW, he is an exceptionally nice young man; I'm not being mean here). At any rate, I'm cleaning the boat this past Sunday from top to bottom and again find no water in the plug area of the bilge. I move the sliding rear observer's seat and pull the little plastic storage bin under it to look into the bilge area around the trans/v-drive. Ahh..., here is our water! (not gallons-because the bilge pump keeps it evacuated, but plenty) Why? The hole that allows water to move forward to the aformentioned "hull plug area" was clogged with a combination of a "sludge, extra nuts, washers and a piece of wire combination" Remember, new boat. This coming weekend - my plan is to scrub the bilge from back to front with Simple Green to ensure that there is nothing in the bilge that should not be there...which brings me to my point (in a very long-winded sort of way). I shouldn't be doing this. I bought a boat with roughly the same starting price as a Ferrari F8 Tributo. Let me promise you something, I would not have things left "un-sorted"/"un-finished" when buying an F8. I have various other silly things to fix like "x-mas tree fasteners" that are bent side ways so that the pad is not flush (you can see through the gap in the pad to this issue). None of this is big or catastophic, but this isn't the point. It shouldn't happen when I'm spending north of $250K. The problem is-the same crew that assembles the least expensive Nautique is the same crew (or some facsimile) that is assembling a Paragon.

In the end, I think all boat companies have these issues, and most have many more-than Nautique. My issue is that the filth in my engine compartment via assembly is just as bad (no, it is worse) than my G23 was. Most boat owners don't spend much time "critiquing" engine and bilge cleanliness; they just get in and drive. I'm aware of this. Regardless, I expected better attention to detail (but actually knew that I wasn't going to get different-if made in the same factory by the same laborers), yet here I am-ticked that they won't differentiate with the "halo" product... Please opine...

[Evening Shade]

I know a higher purchase price should guarantee something "extra" over a less expensive product, but there is something called the "law of diminishing returns". It's called a "law" because you can't buy your way out of it. I'm probably just scorned though. My wife is currently looking at a Mercedes SUV and for the life of me I can't find any way to see the "value" in this vehicle compared to less expensive alternatives.

As you have basically already said your extra money went to R&D, technology, and the premium associated with owning the most advanced boat in the segment and not into construction.

Having said all that, I am surprised at how many screws, nuts, washers, etc you find in the bilge of a new boat. Always makes me wonder if those pieces get dropped and they just grab another one and install it or did that part just not get installed.

[RDT-G23]

As you have basically already said your extra money went to R&D, technology, and the premium associated with owning the most advanced boat in the segment and not into construction.

The bold, italicized and underlined text above...^

[core-rider]

I believe without them having a QC person working right beside construction to catch every little piece dropped it will continue to happen. They are pumping these boats out fast! Stuff will get dropped... unlike cars, boats have a hull to catch all those dropped parts so we see more random trash collected during ownership. I saw the same thing with my 03 SANTE.

It's annoying yes, but I don't think paying an extra $100k over a G23 for a P23 will ever warrant more QC on the assembly line... you're paying for the extra stuff the P23 has over the G23. Paying so much for a boat to find little bits of trash and extra parts is a bummer, but I just don't see it changing. As long as it's not affecting the integrity or performance of the boat just clean as issues are found and move forward enjoying your boat.

[Kenv]

Yep...I've found all types of crap in the bottom of all my Nautiques....screws...zip ties....tons of metal shavings...stuff I can't identify....etc. To me...it bothers the CRAP out of me that they couldn't just take a dam shop vac and give it a once over to pick up all the loose stuff. If you remember, a few years back, Nautique was putting seats in some boats that didn't even line up correctly with the other side in the bow!!! Terrible attention to detail. I get it...it happens...but if I was "That guy"....the bottom of the hull would get at least a shop vac pass before it left for the dealer.

[scottb7]

I had the same experience in my 2008 210, and my 2014 g23 with a load of crap in the bottom of the boat.

So you sincerely believe that the things you noted are acceptable on a $80k boat?

Not to me. It is unreasonable at all levels if you want to be a premier brand.


“I believe without them having a QC person working right beside construction to catch every little piece dropped it will continue to happen.”

That would work. But how about just having a internship with a mfg student or something that is assigned the responsibility of picking the stuff up. I get that it is a pain cause you can’t get it with a magnet since stainless. But not difficult to deal with.

You know that some mgr on the floor has told the workers not to bother, and obviously has been saying it for many years. To me it is a mgmt problem. If I worked there I would ask them to fix it the very first day on the job.

[greggmck]

I agree. It is disturbing that such a high quality boat has such significant short-falls in construction and assembly. Its the little but still significant things that can be disturbing. For example the heater hoses on my 2020 G23 look like tissue paper. Someone decided to use the cheapest flex hose around and the result are hoses that tear much too easily. Really? How much does a high quality heater hose cost? There are all sorts of debris in the hull, clearly someone with a self-respecting work ethic could have removed them. This issue is by no means unique to Nautique. My son works at a local marina that sells a large volume of another popular brand of boat. He preps and delivers new boats and I cant believe the stories he tells me of the poor quality control he sees. These are the symptoms of an industry that are selling expensive boats as fast as they can build them. The small details like manuals, quality control, and software testing / updates tend to fall behind as they push for greater volume and profitability. I hope Nautique sees this occurring and makes the adjustment to resolve these issues because for boats in this class the details do matter.

[MinnDakNautiqueFan]

Similar thing happened to me with my 2015 Sea Doo GTI Limited that I have. I use towels and a suction tube to get any water that may be sitting in the bottom of the engine compartment as Sea Doo doesnt do auto bilge from factory in their machines. I was reaching into the compartment to get the towel out and ended up pulling a few remnants of the metal hose clamps for the hose fittings. Looks like the builders just snipped the excess off and didnt care to try to catch it when doing so.

Not as big of a deal as possibly plugging up a bilge system in a 250k boat but speaks to the QC deficiency it seems consumers experience on the regular even when purchasing the expensive boats and watercraft we do.

[RDT-G23]

Lots of good (and consistent) comments above. I can tell that most feel my pain. I do love this boat! I just don't like seeing this stuff. I let out an audible groan as I was "303ing" my vinyl and noticed that "x-mas tree fastener" bent sideways between the fiberglass and the pad-near the throttle. Where is that QC dude?!! If he is there-he is blind...

[aaronca250f]

Such a bummer story. Ferrari and Pavati only sell high end stuff so the fit and finish are always outstanding. I think your assumption of the same ppl assembling the loss leader are the same doing the Paragon, thus the same attention or lack there of to detail. Sad.

[charlesml3]

Yep. Same on both of my 230s. All kinds of extra stuff in the bilge. Nuts, bolts, zip ties. My 2017 230 had about 18 inches of black hose laying in the bilge. I had to take the floor panel up to replace a failed bilge pump early on. The "channel" the floor sits in was full of fiberglass debris and other stuff from the factory.

-Charles

[BasaltRMK]

RDT-G23 - I feel ya, and completely agree all around. I LOVE my G21, and the fit and finish is leagues above what I’ve seen in Centurion, MC, and Tigé. But there are so many little issues that frustrate me and frankly shouldn’t be found on a premium product. My G21 is no Paragon, but the invoice was $180k! Same issue as you with junk in bilge, broken fasteners, plus ours came with both heater hoses only able to pull out ~1’. And gelcoat scuffs (that we can’t remove) along the bow and tower bases. And crushed, incorrectly routed wiring to the aft Nautique badge. And a 1” gap between the rub rail and fiberglass at the aft port corner. And a non-functional surf remote. And a detached driver’s seat side panel. And a litany of other minor issues. Don’t want to turn this into a b*tch session, but it’s frustrating. And unfortunately our dealer is mostly clueless, so we’re completely on our own. Very frustrating.

But that surf wave...


2020 SAN G21
2018 SAN G21 (traded in)
2015 Tigé R20 (sold)
1972 MFG Gypsy-15 (sold)

[cmasty]

New to the site. This thread is very interesting as I'm in the market for a boat. I've been looking at MC and Nautique. The mfg waste at the bottom of the boat communicates a sloppy and careless attitude. It's also a pretty bad that any dealer would release the boat in this condition. It's not at all acceptable for this level of product. Quality is not inspected into a product, it's built into a product.

[xlair]

New to the site. This thread is very interesting as I'm in the market for a boat. I've been looking at MC and Nautique. The mfg waste at the bottom of the boat communicates a sloppy and careless attitude. It's also a pretty bad that any dealer would release the boat in this condition. It's not at all acceptable for this level of product. Quality is not inspected into a product, it's built into a product.

It’s concerning but this is what you get with a boat vs a car. Finding crap in the bilge on a new Nautique is by no means unique. Every manufacturer has it, arguably much worse. It boggles our collective minds but it is what it is.


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