2021 G23 Ballast

[Roscoef16]

Greetings all-
I'm on my 3rd G23, after having owned a '17 and '19, and I hate to admit that it seems the '21 is quite a bit under-weighted. Now that I got that part out of the way, here is what I'm noticing: there is a notable "rooster tail" of sorts emanating from the port/starboard tab side with factory tanks full and either tab deployed (surf right/left, the tail is specifically located at the tabs). I've noticed this same issue on 3 other stock '21 G23s, so it would seem my experience is not specific to my boat. Put more clearly, the tabs are not deep enough, and the "rooster tail" is the tab portion that is not underwater. So-after experimenting with various weights (250s, 400s and even 800s), the rooster tail disappears, the pocket lengthens, and the wave becomes ****ed near incredible. I figured I'd toss this out to the group to see if others are having the same results after adding ballast. The idea of doing so doesn't sit great with me...these boats are becoming super expensive and having to 1-add ballast and 2-pay for said options after spending a metric crapton seems counter-intuitive. In full disclosure, I did plumb my '17 with an extra 1000 (piggybacked/bags in coffins) and added similar weights to my '19. We are experienced surfers (5th surf boat overall), so that isn't the problem either...

Overall, I guess I'm just a little miffed that my frustration with the new '21 is more than just us surf types looking for the perfect wave. The rooster tail is clearly indicative of a huge dang tab that is not reaching its full effectiveness by not being completely immersed. And, at 2200# there should be more room for more ballast. Our testing so far has shown 500# in each coffin is just about utopia-and-it is my belief the burden of either adding it in a plumbed form or simple lead should not be mine. Anyone heard any solutions or ideas from the company to fix?

[NautiqueJeff]

Not really a solution to your issue, but just something to remember. The Paragon uses the same hull, and the Paragon tower and other associated parts add about 1,200 pounds to the weight, thus putting the total weight right where you're trying to get with additional ballast.

[nohlan_4]

I’d say anyone buying a 2021 G23 should be prepared to add at least 1000#’s of weight to get the boat to the same weight as a paragon. At least as a starting point the hull was designed for that much weight from factory. I would even guess that it’ll handle much more beyond that. Doesn’t make much sense at all really but I guess if you wanted a boat that you don’t have to add as much weight too from factory shoulda have gotten a paragon.


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[Roscoef16]

Can't disagree there...that Paragon tower is a lot heavier (and pretty awesome). Just seems to me that the lack of additional weight should be accounted for, unless the G is now becoming a GS model with a hat tip to the Paragon! Sarcasm aside, the G was the premier surf/wake boat until the Paragon came on the scene, so it doesn't make sense to stop just a touch short (adding/accounting/whatever for another 1000#-ish). Perhaps that'll be addressed in '21-but aside from this-the new '21 delivers as to ride and handling. So...pay an extra 100K for the Paragon or 1k for some weight, answer seems obvious-not 'perfect', but once added its very close.

[greggmck]

I would not put 1000 lbs of weight in the 2021 G23. I have had both the 2021 G23 and the 2021 Paragon. The differences are more than just weight. The base ZZ6 uses the 2:1 transmission with the 17"x17" prop compared to the ZZ8 1.48:1 and 18"x13.5" prop in the Paragon. That 17 x 17 with 800 lbs of extra weight makes a VERY hard wave. If you are a beginner / intermediate carver and you want monster push but don't do tricks the weigh might be ok. But any skilled surfer will tell you that the G23 ZZ6 with over 800lbs makes for a very hard and sometimes brutal wave on rotation and reverse tricks. If the wave hurts you when you try tricks you won't advance. 500 - 600 extra lbs, behind the tower is a great starting point to use in the 2020+ G23 / ZZ6. More is not more.

[kodiak]

If you option the new G23 with the ZR8 does it also have the 1.48 transmission like the Paragon?

[bird_dog0347]

I think it's worth noting that adding the additional 1K ballast to the G23 might dis-incentivize people from making the jump to the P23... Look at how some car manufacturers will not let you add certain options without getting a much more expensive package to get the 1-2 options you were interested in. I'm not saying it's right, it's just the way it's done.

[greggmck]

If you option the new G23 with the ZR8 does it also have the 1.48 transmission like the Paragon?

Yes. The 1.48 is always now paired with the ZZ8.

[Roscoef16]

Greg-
Excellent points, and exactly why I started this discussion. I really want to figure this out, as I have with other models and the collective experience here is worth the discussion. I did note that when we reached the 1000# mark, the wave was just as you said-very firm and while 3s and various other tricks were still attainable, we had to dial the wave down to 0/7 or so. We varied speeds as well and found the same result. And-I think your point is somewhat valid Birddog, but at 300+K versus 200ish I don't know if its a tactically smart decision to stop just a little short of "just right". I know of 2 boats delivered and not accepted because of this-folks expect it to work-bottom line, so I do think it should at least be addressed. If nothing else, the noted rooster tails out either side isn't right, and it's not from the platform, at least from what we could tell. Greg-I'm guessing you noted these as well?

[bird_dog0347]

I demo'd both a 2021 G23 and P23 and didn't notice the rooster tail or any issues on the G23. I did notice the wave was bigger with more push and overall better on the P23, as well as the overall feel and quality on the P23 was better, thus the reason why we ordered a P23 instead. When we rode the G23, I wasn't blown away with the wave but was with the P23, but overall the G23 was awesome too! I'm coming from an older Supra that I've loved for years but it takes a lot of work and ballast to get a good wave, and I would not have been disappointed at all going with a G23.

As for the decision being "tactically smart", I'd say at least for the 2021 MY it really doesn't matter as they are close to (or already are?) sold out of build slots anyway and most dealers don't have any inventory. I'd bet they could add another $20-30K on top of either boat and still sell out in this current market.

[Roscoef16]

I don't think you'll regret the Paragon...super sweet boat. Interesting that you didn't note the spray/tail or whatever we are calling it. I'll try to get a pic or something, and yes, build spots are pretty hard to find, which could mean they're too busy building (overall). I will add that of the 2 who didn't take delivery, those boats were sold within a day or so; folks are weathering the virus on the water which is always good.

[greggmck]

I think the confusion is with the term rooster tail. Typically this means the center section of the wave which peaks into a high spray or rooster tail as the wake converges. The G or the P does not have a substantial rooster tail when surfing. However the larger, taller NSS plates do throw water up into a plume on the non-surf side of the boat. This is by design, the NSS is intended to keep the non-surf side wave from converging into the surf side wave allowing a clean wave to form. Prior generations of NSS were not tall enough to keep all of the non-surf side wave from converging in all cases (e.g. too much weight in the rear). This is why so many new surfers coming from wakeboarding where one loaded weight in the rear of the boat caused the surf wave to wash out on pre 2021Gs. To the best of my knowledge it is not possible to load enough weight into the Paragon or 2021+ G23 to push the NSS so low that the plume disappears. It's a BIG, tall plate.

Also, I think the reason the G feels incomplete as far as ballast is concerned has more to do with getting it to market to make the 2020 deliveries. It is a derivative of the Paragon but without the weight of the Paragon and it needs more ballast. That was probably something Nautique could not address in time to make deliveries this past July. My guess is this gets addressed in future Gs. But that said, they are selling every G they can make because the inconvenience of adding 500 lbs is just that, an inconvenience not a show stopper impacting sales.

Here are a few pics of the starboard side plume as we surf on the port side.

[bird_dog0347]

Yeah, I knew what Roscoe was referring to with the "rooster tail" or whatever, I just never really noticed it while surfing or driving either boat. It never would have bothered me either, and I agree with the fact that the plates are huge and would cause that. That said, I've never been on a G23 prior to the 2021 models so I have no previous history/memory to compare it to so take my observations with that grain of salt.

[Roscoef16]

Greg-from the looks of the pic, mine is more pronounced...so maybe I need to look a little further. My '17 and '19 were cleaner and did not have the convergence issue you explained (and what I've seen on others). I'll keep looking at it/screwing around though you've given me plenty to consider. Thanks for that and good luck with both Paragons fellas-had to leave a little leftover for a saltwater ride, and it'll keep me squarely jealous of y'alls. I'm happy with mine though and overall they got more right than wrong-far more.

[Kenv]

Funny.....reading these posts....when I ordered my 2021 G23 a month or so ago....my dealer asked me if I wanted them to add any lead in the deal....since they were doing that for most of the G23s received......or I could wait and try it first...then get the lead. It's not "free" lead...but a little cheaper than some of the online prices.