1,450 Pounds More Ballast in 2022 G23 & G25!

[Skipdawg316]

I’ve had a “one year boat” in the past. Before I made the right decision and switched to Nautique, I had a 2014 Malibu LSV where the initial hull changes were made, but the new dashboard wasn’t added until the next year. They also had an MP engine which they ditched the next year as well. Of course I found all of this out right around the time it was going to be delivered.

Similar to what has been said here, I hoped for upgrade of the dashboard, I was disappointed about the engine, and I let it be known I was pissed - the whole deal. I then worried about resale and internet research and all of that. I was convinced it truly was a dud.

Turns out that was just silly in retrospect. I got over it and we used the boat and enjoyed it. Never had any problems despite it was so one off.

Same thing when we went to sell it a couple years later. Nothing happened. No lower value, no questions on the dash, no issues on the one off engine. Just families and first time boat owners looking for a boat. If anything, it was the colors that mattered the most. It sold easily.

It’s important to keep in mind that we are on these forums, but the vast majority of owners or perspective owners are not. Or they aren’t going to care about the differences between a 2021 or 2022, as both share the same hull, which is what they will want.

Plus, since supplemental ballast is an option in 2022, it doesn’t mean everyone will get it, so there’s that too. Towers are polarizing, so that could be a variable either for or against.

Anyway, I think the key point is yes, it’s a disappointment for sure, but don’t let that ruin an amazing boat like the 2021. Throw some lead in it and enjoy it… it will sell just fine in the future.


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[RDT-G23]

Here is the letter I sent to the President. I will not waste anyone's time with the pablum and disappointing response that I received...
__________________________________________________ ______

Dear Greg -

I've been a Nautique customer for 20 years. Including our current boat, we've owned 4, and consistently moved up every few years as your product line has evolved.

6 months ago, we took delivery of a brand-new 2021 G23, which was a large decision given the price. We ordered the boat from our local dealer, and paid almost $220,000 on delivery. In absolute dollars this is a significant purchase any way you look at it.

While aesthetically pleasing, the boat has been massively disappointing. The steering assist has failed twice, the steering is notchy, it is under-ballasted, and the user interface is needlessly complicated.

I found out this week that Nautique has addressed many of these issues in the 2022 G23 upgrades. You have also doomed the 2021 resale value, and created enormous animus among the community of people who stepped up and supported the introduction of the new model.

As it stands, I have a 6-month old boat, with 22 hours of use, that no buyer who does even a modest amount of research on Google will want based on the overwhelmingly negative community feedback. I appreciate that you addressed shortcomings for future owners, but people like me are deeply compromised - both operationally and financially.

The situation could be ameliorated if Nautique embraced the 2021 model owners and provided some upgrade path at reasonable cost. I would actually be willing to ship my boat back to the factory - or have it at the dealer for a protracted period of time - to salvage my resale value. The interface upgrades seem straightforward as a SW load, many of us prefer the manual tower so that change is moot, but the ballast is a gating item.

I would appreciate your thoughts, as I am deeply concerned and the outcome of this situation will absolutely color my view on brand loyalty moving forward.

With frustration and disappointment,

Adam Grosser

I pride myself upon being able to communicate via the written word. This sure is well written!

[scottb7]

Does nautique make a kit for anything (that is feature related)? Does anyone think you can convince them to start now? Their business model seems to be to keep inovating and moving forward.

You think people would switch brands to non-nautique if a competitor made kit's and future proofed you? Does any boat mfg make kits? Or are they all same as nautique on the matter?

[Neptune442]

I couldn't agree with Skipdawg more. My first boat (2000 Sport) originally came with the now defunct Teleflex gauges which of course failed, so there was no way to know its true engine hours. Didn't matter - bought it, loved it, and sold it to another PN member who is now enjoying it. My current boat (2005 SV211) has quite possibly the worst ballast configuration ever invented - the antiquated hard tanks with valves that won't fully close, so the dang tanks fill on their own. It also has the infamous non-water friendly Gateway box that was ingeniously designed with pilot tubes incorporated into the box...so yep - speedo gauge doesn't work because of this. But still, our family has cherished our time on the boat - and I guarantee when the time comes I'll sell it to another family who'll do the same.

So please 2021 owners, step off the ledge. Your boat is going to sell just fine. And in the mean time, enjoy the heck out of it. Because you're the only one on the lake that is going to care that it isn't a 2022.

The inherent risk in buying anything new is that good companies are obviously going to work hard to continually improve their product...this isn't a Nautique specific issue. I'd advise anyone who may be susceptible to this year-to-year design change/upgrade envy fatigue to just buy used, in order to avoid this new purchase buyer's remorse. Especially when the remorse comes with 6 figures.

[FireBreathingRubberDucky]

I couldn't agree with Skipdawg more. My first boat (2000 Sport) originally came with the now defunct Teleflex gauges which of course failed, so there was no way to know its true engine hours. Didn't matter - bought it, loved it, and sold it to another PN member who is now enjoying it. My current boat (2005 SV211) has quite possibly the worst ballast configuration ever invented - the antiquated hard tanks with valves that won't fully close, so the dang tanks fill on their own. It also has the infamous non-water friendly Gateway box that was ingeniously designed with pilot tubes incorporated into the box...so yep - speedo gauge doesn't work because of this. But still, our family has cherished our time on the boat - and I guarantee when the time comes I'll sell it to another family who'll do the same.

So please 2021 owners, step off the ledge. Your boat is going to sell just fine. And in the mean time, enjoy the heck out of it. Because you're the only one on the lake that is going to care that it isn't a 2022.

The inherent risk in buying anything new is that good companies are obviously going to work hard to continually improve their product...this isn't a Nautique specific issue. I'd advise anyone who may be susceptible to this year-to-year design change/upgrade envy fatigue to just buy used, in order to avoid this new purchase buyer's remorse. Especially when the remorse comes with 6 figures.

I understand the sentiment of the message. However, it really holds no water (pardon the pun I suppose) in regards to my situation.

1. My first boat as a boy was 1991 20 foot Four Winns IO. Loved that boat and had a ton of fun on it.
2. My second boat was a 1980s something (I was just a kid) 23 foot Invader IO. Fast, deep V boat. That thing spent more time in the shop than the water but was fun when it did work.
3. My 3rd boat was a 1997 Ski Sanger Direct Drive. Bought it used in 2005 and sold it in 2014. I put on too many hours for the meter to count. This was the boat I truly cut my teeth on. I filled the back of it up with sand bags for weight and became what I would consider to be a considerably above average wakeboarder behind that boat. Lots of fun summers and years.
4. Then I started stepping up to the Nautique’s and with it my expectation changed.

As you can see from all of my previous posts, I couldn’t care less if it’s a 2021 or a 2022 (from a purely superficial standpoint and I sure as **** don’t care what other people think in this regard either). I don’t like the new standard tower on the 2022’s at all. However, I’m straight up ticked off about the situation with the ballast. I trailer my boat all over the PNW and I hate having to drag around my lead with me. I called Nautique before making the purchase, as well as before starting production on my boat to see if they could just add ballast at the factory. I was willing to pay for it and already knew the cavity existed within the subfloor for the extra bags. However, they made it clear this wasn’t an option and essentially told me they didn’t know if it would become one (that was all the way up to December 2020). Fair enough I figured; I’d drag my lead around a little while longer and then do the after market ballast in the winter. I took delivery in April and this bomb drops in June. I did speak with someone at Nautique who stated they do read these forums and take customer feedback into account, which essentially means they knew they didn’t ballast the boat to the consumers expectations and are making amends for it in 2022. However, at this juncture it would seem as though they are leaving the 2021 model year owners hanging out to dry. I don’t expect them to give me the kit/upgrade for free...I just want an option of having a kit to pay for (which I can integrate with my current ballast system and the LINC Panoray)

Yes, I am a good enough surfer and wakeboarder to utilize the extra wave and wake. Am I Noah Flegel, no. Do I use the whole wave every time I’m on the water, absolutely. The best part about ballast is you get to drain it when you’re done. I expect changes to happen and progress to be made. Frankly I was on the fence between this and the X24, as I rode behind the X24 wave without any lead and just comparing stock ballast to stock ballast the X24 had a better surf wave. But I love my dealer and by adding the lead, the gap was closed on the surf wave and the X24 doesn’t even come close to the G23 wakeboard wave.

The only reason I’m being so public about this (more public than I’ve really ever been about anything) is because if they are reading these boards they need to understand there are people like me who are very frustrated by this.

I’m not on any **** ledge. My family and I were out last weekend and had a blast. I love the boat and understand how lucky I am to have it. I also work extremely hard for this luxury and by no means has it been given to me. Much like some of you that have provided your sage wisdom, my walk to school was also 60 miles, uphill both ways in 6 feet of snow wearing nothing but my birthday suit.

And that is that as they say.

[tdc_worm]

I trailer my boat all over the PNW and I hate having to drag around my lead with me.

I am with you. I loathe trailering. I wonder what the net trailer difference/experience is between a G boat and a P boat....

[greggmck]

If I was unhappy about a 2021 that I purchased. I would sell the boat and get a 2022. Why agonize over a new ballast feature on a $200K boat? There is very strong demand for slightly used boats. Sell it, get what you want and preserve your peace of mind.

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[Bevostein]

The factory is focused on producing boats and making kits would be a distraction and drain on already scarce parts and resources. I wouldn't assume that since the factory isn't offering a official "kit" then the additional ballast can't be added to a '21. Your dealer may be able to get you where you want to be depending on how the new ballast is integrated.

First question is whether the '21 software can be updated to the '22 software. Assuming it can, whether your dealer can build out the new system is probably going to be dependent on how the new ballast was integrated into the existing system. If it is a simple plug and play scenario then its probably something your dealer would be willing to do, If it has additional pumps, ballast sensors, actuators etc. it may not be an easy upgrade. All those components would likely require new power and control wiring harnesses, relays, fuses etc. That's before you even get to mounting and doing any new thru hull fittings for the pumps and bags. It could get complicated in a hurry.

If it can be done at a reasonable cost I would consider doing it but if not I will stick with my 1K in lead. Then again I don't trailer.

[DanLG21]

When I discussed the 2021 G not having enough ballast with Nautiques Head account Manager A.W, He told me that Nautique is on to something big and that the hull needs less weight yada yada, I loved my 2017 G and was loyal like no other, You could not get me to even think about a different manufacturer. Nautique knows how brand loyal people are and they use that to there advantage. It led me back to the drawing board and I ended up with an X22. If the 2022 was available then I would not have switched but no matter how brand loyal one can be the 2021 is flat out rushed to market. I sure hope Nautique does something for all 2021 buyers, The boat market is hot but you are still going to lose 20-30K upgrading and that's not right to force an upgrade.

[GMLIII]

I believe this thread may grow in size to the "Prop Shaft Failure" thread. Probably PN's longest running thread with responses to date. Great thread to really understand 2021 G owners frustration levels. I feel for them tremendously.

[Tchur1]

When I discussed the 2021 G not having enough ballast with Nautiques Head account Manager A.W, He told me that Nautique is on to something big and that the hull needs less weight yada yada, I loved my 2017 G and was loyal like no other, You could not get me to even think about a different manufacturer. Nautique knows how brand loyal people are and they use that to there advantage. It led me back to the drawing board and I ended up with an X22. If the 2022 was available then I would not have switched but no matter how brand loyal one can be the 2021 is flat out rushed to market. I sure hope Nautique does something for all 2021 buyers, The boat market is hot but you are still going to lose 20-30K upgrading and that's not right to force an upgrade.

We were in a similar spot when finding our new boat. Fully intended to buy a Nautique but ended up in a new X Star based on a lot of the feed back here. Without getting into a crazy brand debate we are really happy in the X Star but will consider Nautique when its time to upgrade in a few years. Definitely feel for the 2021 owners that who have to trailer and lead cant solve their issue as easily.

[bird_dog0347]

I'll say this... coming from a 2007 Supra 24SSV, last fall we demo'd the G23, then the M240, then the P23 in that order. Now while the G23 wave was good, and certainly better than the Supra I was coming from along with it being fully automated with sub-floor ballast I sort of expected more. I had never surfed behind any other boat, but I just really expected more from the wave. The rest of the boat was phenomenal, with no complaints about anything at all. Had we stopped there I would have bought it and been happy, but the blissful ignorant kind of happy. Then we tried the M240 and the wave was substantially better than the G23 out of the box, but there were things we didn't like as much. The interior didn't feel as nice, we didn't like the layout as much, and the fit/finish overall just seemed to be as lacking as the G23 wave when compared to the Nautique. Then we rode the P23 and knew it was the one, a wave like the M240 but with the Nautique fit/finish turned up to overdrive. We have no regrets about the P23, but had we gotten the G23 then had this announcement I think I would have major regret and would have wished we got the M240. I can see many people not able to get the P23 going to another brand in the price range of the G23 over this, and that is sad IMO and unnecessary for something that could be fairly easily handled. Today I got a letter in the mail from Nautique for a survey, and it said they will send another in 10 months, I wonder how many people with G23/25 boats will have very different feelings after the 10 month survey card gets sent in.

[FireBreathingRubberDucky]

I’VE FOUND PROOF!!! The 2022 software update should work in the 2021 models! Sometimes it pays to have OCD. At a minimum this clearly gives me some hope.

Below is a screenshot of a YouTube product review of a 2021 Super Air Nautique G23 completed by Power Boating Magazine on March 18th, 2021. The picture clearly shows the new software being used in a 2021 model between 1:19 and 1:21. You can see there are still only 3 ballast tanks but the LINC Panoray background is clearly the same as the 2022 (which is funny because just before they zeroed in on the Wake Pro screen it showed the old screen). I’ve also provided a link to the video just below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS64yUe4GB8

Now here is the 2022 product overview of the new ballast option Nautique posted, which clearly shows the same background at 9 seconds into the video filling 5 ballast tanks. I’ve provided a screenshot of this video below as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a97FOMxJH9A

You can clearly see on the left side of the LINC Panoray in both pictures and videos the icons and formatting matchup.

[Bevostein]

I am a little confused by how you are interpreting the video by Power Boating. I already have that screen with the 3 ballast tanks on my 2021. My boat downloaded some software updates but nothing would make me think I have some 2022 software.

What is concerning to me is 2022 video shows percentages for both of the additional ballast bags. That to me indicates those likely have there own pump(s), ballast senders and possibly valve actuators. As I mentioned above I think that could significantly complicate and upgrade.

[FireBreathingRubberDucky]

I am a little confused by how you are interpreting the video by Power Boating. I already have that screen with the 3 ballast tanks on my 2021. My boat downloaded some software updates but nothing would make me think I have some 2022 software.

What is concerning to me is 2022 video shows percentages for both of the additional ballast bags. That to me indicates those likely have there own pump(s), ballast senders and possibly valve actuators. As I mentioned above I think that could significantly complicate and upgrade.

I guess I need to update my software then because mine doesn’t look anything like this. I had planned on putting in new pumps to upgrade anyhow so it doesn’t take me 20 minutes to fill my tanks. I know in your original message you stated the factory is focused on producing boats and not kits, which you’re likely 100% spot on. However, my hope is still clinging on to them putting together a kit with all the necessary components, making integration possible. On the technical aspects, I’m far from an expert but again my hope was that since they knew this change was coming they would have integrated the necessary electrical aspects into the 2021 models with the anticipation people would want to upgrade. Similar to having an extra breaker/relay in the fuse box at your house.

That being said, I guess my hope was misguided simply by the fact I need to update my boats software.