2018 G23 vs. 2021 G23 surf / skim wave only

[RSLDSN]

I am looking for honest insight hopefully with experience riding behind both boats for the following question.

Boat #1 2018 G23

• ZZ6 engine
• 3 adults in the boat (Approx. 500lbs)
• Added 200 pound of led on Port side under rear seating
• Max factory Ballast 2,850 500lbs

Boat #2 2021 G23

• ZR7 engine
• 3 adults in the boat (Approx. 500lbs)
• Max factory Ballast 2,850 500lbs

Comparison - Does the 2021 have as good of a wave or better than the 2018 for surf / skim only. We currently have a 2018 and love both sides of the wake. We can make the 2018 steep and short or smooth and long. We put just about 200 hours a summer on the boast so it’s time to look for a newer boat. Can’t fathom spending the $250K ++ for a new 2022 so we are looking at the 2021. There is a 2021 that I have my eye on and want to jump on it, however I am reading a lot of posts about the 2021 being under weight and needing additional aftermarket ballast. I am looking to see what people think of the wakes of boat 1 vs. boat 2 without any additional aftermarket weight.

Looking forward to hearing your feedback

[charlesml3]

OK, I have surfed both boats. Actually quite a few. 2013 G23, 2019 G23, 2020 G23 and most recently the 2121 G23.

There is absolutely no question that the 2121 with the Paragon hull and huge NSS plates surf far better. It isn't even close. It's the best surf wake I've even ridden. Both sides. The wakeshaper screen is easier to use. No more NSS = this and NCRS = that. It's one setting from 1-10 and it's effective.

The layout is on another level above the previous YM boats. I really didn't think they could improve the layout much more but they most certainly did.

Let's move on to the driving. At cruise and surf it's phenomenal. The power steering is perfect. You can point at a spot down the lake and let go of the steering wheel and it will not swerve or turn at all. This is true even when surfing the boat! It's amazing. Now the slow speed handling... is rough. The turn radius is HUGE and it skids all over the place. I have to use the steering assist on this boat when I really never did on the 2019 I drove.

So it comes down to how much money you're willing to spend.

[greggmck]

I have owned a 2018 G23, surfed it for nearly 300 hours and my family and I have extensive experience in surf competition. I have also surfed the 2021 G23. With the stock ballast the 2021 has an OK skim style wave and an anemic surf style wave. However with 800 lbs of additional lead ballast the 2021 G23 puts out a wave that is profoundly better than the 2018 in every way. That said if I were to purchase a 2021 G I would only add about 500-600 lbs of additional ballast because the 800 lbs was too much with a crew of three.

Clearly there are many who believe more weight equals a better wave. But in my opinion that is not always the case. If one is a beginner to intermediate surf style rider I get why one might like a big steep wave. It makes it easier to carve around without losing the wave, especially when the skill to stay on any wave hasn't been developed. However larger waves are very detrimental to progressing to be an accomplished surfer for many reasons that I won't go into here.

In 2022 Nautique added 1450 lbs of subfloor ballast to address the lack of sufficient ballast in the 2021. For the majority of circumstances filling the 1450 lbs of ballast would be unnecessary making the wave too steep and too hard to ride for anything other than carving. However the advantage of that extra ballast is one does not have to haul lead around when not surfing and of course one doesn't have to fill it 100% allowing the wave to be dialed in as crew size and rider skill level dictates.

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[RSLDSN]

So Gregg a couple follow up questions
1. Putting you on the spot - You would stick to the hull design prior to 2021 if you did not want any additional aftermarket weight (ballast or lead)? So look for a 2020 G23?
2. If you were to put the 500lbs in the 2021 would you keep it there always? We basically only use the boat for surf / skim. I once saw a diagram of location of 50lb sacks do you happen to have one showing the 500-600lbs on 2021 G23?

[greggmck]

I had 800 lbs of extra lead in my 2018 G23. The boat NEEDED the weight to make its best wave. One that was long, powerful and well shaped. I would not consider paying $200K to buy any boat and limit the weight needed to achieve its best wave.

I would be COMPLETELY satisfied with the wave of a 2021 G23 with the proper amount of extra weight (500 to 600 lbs extra lead with a small crew). I always leave the extra weight in the boat until I sell it.

There is ABSOLUTELY no comparison between the wave of a 2020 G23 (especially with no extra weight) compared to the 2021 G with 500lbs. You have to surf it to understand, it's SO much better.

BTW, we keep 400 lbs of lead in our Paragon since new. It's on a 10K lb lift and I don't trailer. It will be there until I get another boat!

All the best!

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[greggmck]

Here is the setup we used in our 2016 - 2020 G23s.

The 2021 configuration is easy. For 500 lbs total put 300 lbs under the port side flip up coffin seat near the tower and 200 lbs under the same location on the starboard side.

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[BYLKN]

I don’t have a G23 but have ridden behind the old and new hull of the G23. I have owned all generations of the G25 Hull and can attest to what Greg says, there’s no comparison to the 21 model. I ride skim almost 100% time with no fin. The wave is awesome especially with the extra 800 pounds of lead (you don’t need that much for the G23). I usually ride a setting no higher than 5. Hope this helps.

[Skipdawg316]

+1 to the comments above.

Had a 2017 G23 with 900 pounds and it was really good. Helped progress my surfing big time (coming from a Malibu).

I now have a 2021 and it’s unquestionably better. Massively so. I feel it’s familiar enough, but way better in size, shape and push. I’m at 800 pounds of lead now given we ride two adults and a kid. With more people that would be too much.


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[Johnny_Rock]

Curious Gregg—what do you do when you have more people in the boat?

[greggmck]

I reduce ballast. Typically I reduce ballast 10% for every extra 250lbs of extra people.

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[kodiak]

I reduce ballast. Typically I reduce ballast 10% for every extra 250lbs of extra people.

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What level are you using 0-10?

[greggmck]

We typically surf with the wave on 2 to 3 but often run at 1 when learning more complex tricks. My wife is an intermediate surfer and she mostly carves and throws board slides. She surfs on 6-7. The better you get the flatter you will want the wave. All of the noise you hear about big steep waves is usually from people who have not progressed beyond carving and the need/want a steep wave to allow them to stay on the wave.

No one throws advanced tricks like this on a wave bigger than 3 or 4.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CPeXa_Sh..._web_copy_link

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[kodiak]

We typically surf with the wave on 2 to 3 but often run at 1 when learning more complex tricks. My wife is an intermediate surfer and she mostly carves and throws board slides. She surfs on 6-7. The better you get the flatter you will want the wave. All of the noise you hear about big steep waves is usually from people who have not progressed beyond carving and the need/want a steep wave to allow them to stay on the wave.

No one throws advanced tricks like this on a wave bigger than 3 or 4.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CPeXa_Sh..._web_copy_link

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What board is that your son is using? My son is 6' 180 and was asking me. He uses a Liquid Force primo and we want to upgrade.

[greggmck]

My son is on a 4'8" board that we designed with the owner of Blusurf. See www.blusurf.com. If you are interested ask Jonathan for a McKnight-mare. It is an amazing board and every one that has ridden it loves the board. It is fast, stable, super easy to spin and has great pop off the wave. Tell him Gregg sent you and he will take care of you!

Your son should ride a 4' 9" or a high volume 4'8" if he likes a shorter board.

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[surfnjosh]

We typically surf with the wave on 2 to 3 but often run at 1 when learning more complex tricks. My wife is an intermediate surfer and she mostly carves and throws board slides. She surfs on 6-7. The better you get the flatter you will want the wave. All of the noise you hear about big steep waves is usually from people who have not progressed beyond carving and the need/want a steep wave to allow them to stay on the wave.

No one throws advanced tricks like this on a wave bigger than 3 or 4.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CPeXa_Sh..._web_copy_link

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Well im not sure that is a true statement. If you watch any pro level wakesurfer describe there surf settings in there nautique most of them are saying they ride at 10.... John Akerman, Jodi Grassman both have posts stating this and if you watch all there videos of surfing you can tell its a steep wave, most SKIM style surfers prefer it steep.....
I myself prefer the surf at 5 on my 2021 (with midship sacs installed) but i certainly aint no pro!!! Your kid rips! but i bet hes also a lot lighter than most of us recreational surfers and doesnt need as much push.... my 10 year old daughter surfs at 0....

I also run more ballast than most in a 2021 g23, as i installed 650lb sacs in my midship cavities. I have my wave dialed in and bet you would love it, i may not be a pro surfer but i can create a pro wave.

100 lead in bow, 100 lead under port observer seat, factory bow ballast 100% (750) rear factory 80% (600 ish each side) midship additional ballast 90% (600 ish each side) driver and a spotter sitting on port side observer seat 11.4 mph surf at 5, wave is money.