Pretty Big Issue with Early Paragons (23s and 25s)

[RDT-G23]

I have an early Paragon. (I'll just say that I'm in the first 100 boats made.) It has been discovered that I have a hull crack that is showing up on 2020 and 2021 Paragons, located from the rudder area to rear/stern. Mine isn't terrible, but will need to be fixed. It is a flaw in the design/mold process for these early hulls/boats wherein the fiberglass/gel coat is not substantial enough in this area. The fix involves removing the engine, the partition, etc. To say I'm unhappy doesn't begin to describe where I am. I'm purposely being vague and not including pictures at this point. Nautique knows this is an issue, and has since changed the mold process to address this point. Sure, it is under warranty. I don't care. I'm that guy who doesn't even allow car delaers to do the cosmetic portion of a PDI. I am an anal-retentive freak. My initial encounter with Nautique involved my 2017 G23 being delivered without a catalyst in one exhaust manifold. Many issues and another Nautique later, I'm trying to decide my next move. I'm not sure what to do and won't buy a Master Craft or Malibu as I believe them to be more flawed than my Nautiques. That said, Homey does not buy $300K + boats to have this stuff happen. I have (I think) the best dealer with whom I deal; they are good people. Doesn't matter. This is ridiculous. I never once had an issue with the Cobalt I owned before jumping to V-Drives (though I'm not saying that brand is perfect-by any means). What I am saying is while this issue is more limited in production years/boats affected than the famed "prop-shaft breakage issue" on the 2-teens G23s, it will affect most of these boats, and require major work to repair. (Replacing a prop shaft is a "can-o'-corn" compared to this repair.) My neighbor has a 2021 Paragon 25, made about 7 months after mine. A crack was found on his that is much worse than mine. Two Paragons, one neighborhood, same big issue. Bad ju-ju folks, really, really bad ju-ju. Threads on this topic will begin to show themselves on this forum. Again, Nautique knows about the issue.

[GMLIII]

RDT-G23
Sorry to hear . Something of this magnitude do you think they would consider a boat replacement? IMHO I think that area would always be compromised in your mind regards of the warranty repair work preformed

[Scooter G]

Dang, sorry for the stress RDT-G23, I would take my broken prop shaft over a cracked hull all day long. Nautique is all that for for standing behind their rigs, we are fortunate that we have that going. At the end of the day, or month, you will be good as new (well, better than new), pretty sure of it. If this indeed flares as big deal in reported boat #'s, I'm sure this will hurt used G boat sales in the '20 '21 category. I would love to jump into either of those 2 years for a sizable discount, lol. Hopefully it is a remote issue, or not everyone crawls under their boat to check the integrity of the hull, and there is a whole bunch of this going on.
So just trying to track and follow along here. Am I mistaken, wasn't there a major hull design in 2021? Why is this just showing up, and carrying over to the '21? A crack in the gel would usually indicate a flaw or stress in the under structure/fiberglass and not in the gel. The gel coat is the flashing red light that says something may be wrong, and would be an easy fix by itself, pulling the engine to make a structural repair is a whole other banshee, wow. Is this a hair line crack or grand canyon crack, would love to see a pic or 2...
Keep us posted...

[RDT-G23]

RDT-G23
Sorry to hear . Something of this magnitude do you think they would consider a boat replacement? IMHO I think that area would always be compromised in your mind regards of the warranty repair work preformed

I doubt it, but who knows. I know it can be repaired to be orders of manitude stronger than ever needed, and likely will be. It is the "stuff" that happens along the way. I have an excellent dealer, but I equate this to body work on a car; I have never (and I mean never) had body work done to a vehicle that I can't pick apart - mercilessly. I'm not really worried about the fiberglass work itself, I'm worried about the inevitable (forgive me) crap that happens by hourly mechanics as they dissassemble/re-assemble (pull that part of the interior apart, the engine out, the partition, etc.) Last time they replaced a simple heat exchanger, the work was quite sloppy. I had numerous leaks after that; we utlimately got it right after almost a year. This comes from a person who hand washes/foams all of his own vehicles, after being paint corrected, PPFd and ceramic coated, does his own own maintenance, never valets, etc. I'm a complete weirdo. Again, I don't believe it humanly possible to do this without damage I will find, however minor it may be. This scenario is likely primed to bring out the worst in my personality...which is easily done.

[RDT-G23]

Dang, sorry for the stress RDT-G23, I would take my broken prop shaft over a cracked hull all day long. Nautique is all that for for standing behind their rigs, we are fortunate that we have that going. At the end of the day, or month, you will be good as new (well, better than new), pretty sure of it. If this indeed flares as big deal in reported boat #'s, I'm sure this will hurt used G boat sales in the '20 '21 category. I would love to jump into either of those 2 years for a sizable discount, lol. Hopefully it is a remote issue, or not everyone crawls under their boat to check the integrity of the hull, and there is a whole bunch of this going on.
So just trying to track and follow along here. Am I mistaken, wasn't there a major hull design in 2021? Why is this just showing up, and carrying over to the '21? A crack in the gel would usually indicate a flaw or stress in the under structure/fiberglass and not in the gel. The gel coat is the flashing red light that says something may be wrong, and would be an easy fix by itself, pulling the engine to make a structural repair is a whole other banshee, wow. Is this a hair line crack or grand canyon crack, would love to see a pic or 2...
Keep us posted...

Hairline right now. My neighbor's P25 is worse. I will ultimately post pics for sure.

[core-rider]

I had a similar situation on my 2003 SANTE... in 2005 I noticed cracks in the gelcoat inside the hull at both stingers just in front of where the v-drive mounted. They looked superficial, but because they were on the stringers right near the mounts I was worried about structural issues. I'd never hit anything so it was odd these cracks just appeared. I watched them through the season and they never grew larger. My dealer didn't want to take on the task of the repair because it required removing all the drivetrain as well and I'm as picky as they come with my boat, so it was sent back to the Nautique factory during the winter of 2005-06 so the factory could do all the repairs and inspect to make sure there were no structural issues. No major issues were found with the structure, the gelcoat repairs done, and I've not seen an issue since.

I say all this to give you perspective... Yes it sucks there is damage, but you came into literally a brand new hull design. While you should expect there to be no issues with a boat of that value, you should also expect the possibility of some issue down the road. Granted this is a serious issue, but I'm sure Nautique will take care of it for you and the boat will be BETTER than new. I would ask about the possibility of having the work done at the factory so you have people who do this work everyday taking care of it, and they can make sure the structure is strong enough for the future.

As you said this will be covered under warranty, so should be nothing out of your pocket. If the work gets done over Winter you shouldn't miss much water time either! Keep your head up... you could own a Pavati with a cheapass expansion drainplug!

[shag]

Imo, unacceptable for an over 1/4 million dollar boat. For that kind of a problem, they should give you a new boat, and do whatever with your original boat once they repair it. Maybe make it a riders boat. Again, just my opinion. I hope they take care of you.

[Scooter G]

Keep your head up... you could own a Pavati with a cheapass expansion drainplug!

That's some funny stuff right there core-rider.
If you are not up to speed on this, HeavyD sunk his $500k Pavatti over a $20 factory installed expansion plug. I'm still shaking my head over this one...

[core-rider]

More like $5-10... of course form Pavati it probably is $20!

[Kmayotte]

Sell it. Buy a new one.
Or be unhappy it seems.

[RDT-G23]

Seems to me that this would cost me more money, more incovenience, (I'll admit I have a good amount now) etc. I don't plan to allow a lack of proper planning/engineering on Nautique's part to cost me exponentially more money. I'll just put on my training spurs (for those not familiar with spurs, there are differences in training/breaking spurs and those worn on a well-trained horse)

[zigs]

I understand your frustration as I would be as well, but unfortunately these are the types of things that happen with new models that are pushing the performance to places they have never been. Would be nice if the manufacturers had the patience to test new products for three to four years before release but they never do. Look at the snowmobile world now stop rides, and recalls every month it feels. If it was mine I would request it go to the factory to be repaired, they are put together by hand from new, so from the factory you should be able to not notice anything ever was removed or repaired. I would see if they can add the supplemental ballast bags while it is there. Good luck and Nautique usually stands behind their product and tries to do the best they can reasonably do to remedy the situation.

[hal2814]

Something similar happened to Epic boats a while back. They had an issues where the rudder wasn’t reinforced enough and it lead to at least one boat sinking. Epic was a pain to deal with and instead of making things right they exited the wakeboat market entirely. Nautique is making things right. You’re not the first person getting this repair from an Nautique dealer and you won’t be the last. It’s not ideal, but it’s Nautique making right a problem with their product. There’s not some dollar amount you can pay to get a perfect product, especially one that pushes boundaries like this. You should see the issues that pop up on fighter jets. A Paragon costs peanuts in comparison. I get being frustrated. But we’re talking about a crack under the boat. There’s no metal flake down there so it can be done perfectly with a good fiberglass repair. This isn’t auto-body. Your fears are valid but that’s all they are right now: fears. Let the dealer make things right and let us know how it goes.

[charlesml3]

Epic stuck their big toe in the water, decided it was too cold and walked away. Their shot at entering the tournament tow boat market was half-*** on a good day. The entire business model was terrible. They really thought Toyota dealerships would sell and service these boats. They also thought the people that came in and bought $80,000 SUVs were going to just grab a boat while they were there.

[hal2814]

I wasn’t referring to Toyota’s line Epic. I had forgotten about them. I was referring to the brand Epic. They made wakeboats until the above issue and then switched to making fishing boats until 2020 or so when they went out of business. Aside from the crippling hull issue, their boats were interesting. They made great wakeboard wakes but weren’t good at making a surf wave. They also had some novel ideas like transom speakers that worked better than I would’ve thought.