Pretty Big Issue with Early Paragons (23s and 25s)

[Kmayotte]

RDT-G23 based on your self admitted difficulty to please, I'm curious what you would deem a reasonable and satisfying solution from Nautique to your current issue. What's your ask?

[GMLIII]

Kmayotte If it were me, I would ask Nautique for a new boat. Taking the entire engine out of a G23 to replace the fiberglass, it would seem likely you would be tweaking and replacing engine connectors, dealing with oil stained Seadek from engine removal, chipped interior gelcoat to repair after engine removal. Basically, a twisted mess IMHO in which the boat owner would not be satisfied. I know I would not be satisfied.

[bird_dog0347]

We had our dealer tell us in the spring that we had a bent rudder, which was leftover damage from the year before when we hit the rocks. We ran it all season and never noticed, but we did pressure them a bit to get the boat back as quickly as possible as it only had 7 hours on it and was then gone for 6 weeks to get fixed. They told us that as part of that repair it needed gel coat and reinforcement and they pulled the engine and everything. Luckily timing wise it was early and too cold so it didn't bother us, but hey, they did find it and fix it all at no cost to me. I wonder if they found it looking for the cracks you say they already know about? Ours is a 2021 MY delivered in March 2021.

[RDT-G23]

They may have fixed yours as part of the rudder repair. I don't know the timing of when "our dealer" told Nautique that this is/was a chronic issue. Ask Andrew! He is such a good young man.

[RDT-G23]

RDT-G23 based on your self admitted difficulty to please, I'm curious what you would deem a reasonable and satisfying solution from Nautique to your current issue. What's your ask?

This is easy. The repair must be indiscernible. Every aspect of the repair must be indiscernible. I don't think it humanly possible, particularly with my eye. I have too much experience with this level of labor in and around my vehicles. There should be no negative remnants of any human being in the boat. When I take delivery of a boat from the dealer initially, I spend an immense amount of time in all parts of the bilge cleaning up the extra screws, nuts, misc. parts from assembly (which should not be there) and scrubbing the bilge with Simple Green. I re-tie things that the factory did haphazardly (wire loom, and other related things). I have the exterior of the boat corrected (as best as can be), then ceramic coated. I know every square inch of the boat. $25-$30/hour labor can't/won't do this repair indiscernibly. Three posts above - GMLIII mentions a mere fraction of the potential/probable issues.

[bturner]

Based on your stated expectation I think your best path forward would be to come to some agreement with the dealer/Nautique to trade the boat in. There's no way I see a resolution where they replace a 2 season old boat with a new boat for free.

The problem I see for you going with the repair is that even if they did the repair to the level you suggest there's a good chance you'll see something that may have been there before that will affect your satisfaction with the repair. The classic "IDK, it just doesn't feel right" or "it doesn't sound or smell the same" customer comments come to mind from the time I worked in a body shop during my college years. If you're this jaded on the repair now before anyone has even touched the boat, there is no way you're going to be happy no matter what they do to try and please you.

People like to think these boats are one off pieces of art and at the prices these boats have reached I can see why they think so but at the end of the day they're not. They come off a production line made by people with mostly mid-level skill sets in boat building. They're not sculptor's, artisans or master builders (although some of the interior work they do is mind blowing to me) and even if they all were the reality is that all of them are on the clock to get these boats built on a schedule.

I will say if you have go with the repair and have a choice of who does it, I personally would take the plant any day. There's just too many activities going on that a typical dealer doesn't do on a regular basis to go local IMO. I sincerely wish you the best of luck coming to a resolution that will work for you.

[RDT-G23]

bturner- Your comments are well-reasoned. Many people think that the accuracy of boat building is like automotive manufacture; I do not. I've toured the Cobalt factory in Neodesha, KS and the Nautique factory in Orlando - twice. Someone once contextualized boat construction in this way: home construction - not at all assembly line accurate, boat building - better, but still a great margin for error/variance, auto manufacture-the closest tolerances of the three - a true assembly line. For the record, Nautique is moving the Paragon builds to a separate line with the expansion of their facility in Orlando. For numerous reasons, I hope it ensures better accuracy - a differentiated product quality from a baseline boat. My boat has a whopping 64 hours on it. It has never been in the sun except when used. It is, by definition - as creampuff as could be expected. My objections would never be "IDK, it doesnt feel right", I promise. I do all of my own service on every vehicle I own (except for big stuff requiring dealer computers, tools, etc.) I've rebuilt three engines in my life, raced vehicles in my youth, etc. I know what I'm looking at. I'll finish where you started - I see no way they replace the boat for free, regardless of the condition. (My dealer knows me as the most particular of their customers - and we get along great. They are wonderful people.) Who knows the ending here. I suspect we will agree upon the best path forward for all - after the beginning of the new year.

[bird_dog0347]

I agree with bturner with respect to trading it in on a new one, however, I looked into that same thing a few months ago when the 2023 MY was announced. I built out my exact P23 on the website to find out the MSRP was almost $80k more than the MSRP of my boat with no real changes. Not to mention we have a great interest rate currently which would likely double based on current rates even with excellent credit. Then add on the fact that we got a 17% discount off MSRP for our 2021 and when I asked a few months ago was told 10% is the current discount (could be better now with the economy as it is). Either way, that's way too big of a pill for me to swallow right now, but to each their own.

[RDT-G23]

Mine is paid for…which makes this scenario that much worse, IMHO; there is no way in the Wide World of Sports I'm spending a dime more. I got in so early that they hadn't started installing the ZZ8 as the new standard power plant for the Paragon. The ZZ8 was announced as they were spraying my hull... I literally had them pull my hull from the assembly line and set it to the side, remove the XR7 that had been installed in it - and get a ZZ8 drivetrain from South Carolina to power the boat. (I was worried about re-sale - and wanted all the power I could get.) If I follow through with this repair-this would technically be the 2nd engine removal and the 3rd install in this hull... Good grief...


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[Tallredrider]

Would this affect the P23 and G23 both? Sorry about the dumb question, but don't they use the same mold?

RDT, you are in a tough spot. Nobody can love your baby like you can. I understand the concerns, but the boat was no longer new when it left the lot. Gel from a mold will never be the same as gel repair, so you will be able to tell, but most people won't. I would not have the slightest concern about the engine going in and out, personally.

[RDT-G23]

Thank you. I'll find out if they've seen this with early Gs as well. What year was this G introduced, '21?

[Scooter G]

Gel from a mold will never be the same as gel repair, so you will be able to tell, but most people won't.

I might agree to disagree here, to a small degree. Using my G23 as an example, it's not a '67 Camaro show car fine finished straight, just a little wavy from the factory mold process. Coming from a guy that has turned out some beauty custom paint jobs over the years.
I had to repair the back left transom area above the swim deck on my G. The end result on the panel was a better, straighter and a glossier finish. I ended up color sanding and blocking out the other side to get it perfect to match, nobody else noticed, but it was bugging me everytime I walked behind the boat. I understand the A~Retentive perfectionist side of a personality, I'm that guy. My friends know and accept me for my quriks, and they also are the ones asking me to do their work.

RDT-G23, I really think you are going to be fine here, whether it's the dealer or the factory. Your Dealer "Knows how you are", tell them better than perfect and they will get you there. I have seen some incredible there is no way repairs done.

[Cpan13]

This kind of stuff happens. All that matters is how Nautique and your dealer handle it. Bitching about it online before the repair is even done is pretty pointless.

[WakeSports12]

Since when does Nautique owe people a new boat for manufacturer defects that are literally written in the warranty agreement? There isn't an asterisk that says "if you think the defect is bad enough, you get a new boat."

I've had several cracks repaired and a platform replaced and you can't tell the difference if your dealership has a good repair guy. When I sell a car and the transmission blows, I don't give the customer a new car, I honor the manufacturer warranty that the car came with.

Price tag doesn't give anyone the leverage to muscle Nautique into a new boat or whatever it is that you're looking for. You bought the boat at a price that you agreed to along with a stated warranty that you also agreed to. Let your dealer handle it under warranty and continue loving your boat. Just .2 from a guy that sells high end cars to the same type of clientele.

[mikenbike211]

well said