What the heck is zero off???

[efox]

I have seen it mentioned in a couple of posts about 08 models. Is it a new version of perfect pass?

[keukawake]

RE: What the heck is zero off???

GPS-based speed control.

http://www.zerogps.com/

[efox]

RE: What the heck is zero off???

That is cool. I wonder if they will fit into an older carbed boat. Probably not, since they mention they worked with the "engine managment" companies. That spells computer to me. There isn't tons of information on their website.

[Mikeski]

RE: What the heck is zero off???

Currently only works on throttle by wire boats (2006+).

[efox]

RE: What the heck is zero off???

Typical! Everyone ingnoring the market for people fixing up older boats. Seriously, I hope they do something for older boats, it sounds like really cool technology. I guess I might just have to rewire and repower the "middle-aged girl".

[MiracleDriver]

RE: What the heck is zero off???

you can retrofit perfectpass on your boat. it is still the industry standard.

[jonfo]

RE: What the heck is zero off???

Speaking of speed control, i have been behind two boats with speed control other than perfect pass.

1) 2006 Mastercarft X2 with Mastercraft speed control. Did not hold speed well, and wouldn't go below 10mph. Shut off when key shut off, so you had to remember to turn it on when you started the boat up again. It was mounted on the side so you couldnt look forward and see the display, you had to look to the side. Boat owner has since had the dealer install perfect pass and disable the old one. Guage is still there though.

2) 2006 Malibu VLX with Malibu speed control. Hard to engage, but holds speed well once engaged. You had to get the speed almost exactly at the preset speed before it would take over. If went passed it, it would not engage. Very tricky. Once engaged it wants you to adjust the throttle until the little black dot is in the middle of the display. Its like playing Pacman while driving the boat. Shut off when key shut off, so you had to remember to turn it on when you started the boat up again. Display occupies one of speedos just like pp. The digital ballast guage thing is also not ideal. You have to be in the right mode to see ballast level for each of the 4 tanks.

From this, I hope cc keeps using pp and analog guages.

[Fast351]

RE: What the heck is zero off???

I do most of my boating in a river, so GPS based is useless for me. The current is usually 3-5 MPH so for surfing it'd be a real bad deal, for skiing it'd probably be OK.

It's a neat concept, and I understand that for non-current water it's very accurate, but I'll stick with Perfect Pass.

I've "heard" that the 2007 Mastercraft Cruise is much better than the '06 model and they've fixed the 10 MPH bottom limit.

Still, from the couple people I've talked to that have the older versions, they both are looking to switch to Perfect Pass.

On the zerooff system: If you never ride in current and are looking at putting it on a new boat, it's nice because you don't have to drill a hole.

In the mean time, I hope CC stays with PP. It's a proven system.

[Blue Ski]

RE: What the heck is zero off???

It is my understanding that there are issues with Zero Off's compatabiltiy with the Indmar engine management system. For PCM, different story. While it takes some work to get Zero Off on an '06 it should be available on '08's and work seamlessly. (Summary of statements from promo boat guys at a recent tournament). Nautique promo guy will have Zero Off on his '08. He's excited.

[MiracleDriver]

Re: RE: What the heck is zero off???

I do most of my boating in a river, so GPS based is useless for me. The current is usually 3-5 MPH so for surfing it'd be a real bad deal, for skiing it'd probably be OK.

It's a neat concept, and I understand that for non-current water it's very accurate, but I'll stick with Perfect Pass.

I've "heard" that the 2007 Mastercraft Cruise is much better than the '06 model and they've fixed the 10 MPH bottom limit.

Still, from the couple people I've talked to that have the older versions, they both are looking to switch to Perfect Pass.

On the zerooff system: If you never ride in current and are looking at putting it on a new boat, it's nice because you don't have to drill a hole.

In the mean time, I hope CC stays with PP. It's a proven system.

I think you're making assumptions here..


GPS is not speed based its distance based. it will be accurate between 2 coordinates, regardless of wind, water, or speed.

from what I understand you set the coordinates and then adjust the speed accordingly. the fact that the water moves doesn't change the distance travelled.

GPS will take the distance travelled and divide it by the time it took to get from A to B.

I can see traditional speed control systems proving problematic for you, but in theory Zero Off is your best solution to accurate times in the course.

GPS is the future, but time will tell.

[Chad52]

RE: Re: RE: What the heck is zero off???

I agree with Fast351. In a river or current situation, I don't see how this will work. MiracleDriver, I think you are missing a few key points here. What is important in this application is the speed of the boat over the surface of the water. If point A and Point B are locations in a river that has a current, the boat would have to go faster against the current, and slower with the current than a boat travelling from point A to point B with no current. I'm all for GPS, but when I use it to calibrate my speedo's I run either somewhere where there is no current or perendicular to the current. I just don't see how this can work without a paddlewheel to measure relative speed across the surface of the water. I have emailed ZeroOff and all they can give me is marketing spill. When I got all technical on them, they quit responding.

What it all boils down to is not the God's eye view speed from the satellite, or even speed relative to the bank. It is relative speed across the surface of the water that matters. That is what determines all the factors such as wake size, rope tension, water surface tension, etc. Maybe I just don't have all the information as to how it works, but I would love for somebody to explain that to me.

[NautiqueJeff]

RE: Re: RE: What the heck is zero off???

As I understand it, in a tournament situation (wakeboarding excluded), speed is calculated WITHOUT regard to current. That is, it is the time it takes to get from fixed point A to fixed point B. That being the case, Zero Off is actually far more accurate from a tournament perspective. Speed across the surface of the water is irrelevant.

[MARK-S]

RE: Re: RE: What the heck is zero off???

From what I know from speaking to the drivers at trophy and those at the ZO testing for awsa, the drivers and judges will love it and the skiers will take a year to adjust. The consensious was that it will drop a 2-3 balls of your ball count until you ski behind it for a few months. Just like PP when it came out. ZO will do what it needs to do to give you and exact time. It sounds like it may be a few years for them to get some sort of KX system to smooth out the pulls. I have no idea if it is good or not, I am just stating what I know from asking lots of questions in the last few weeks to people who have driven and skied it.

[Fast351]

Re: RE: Re: RE: What the heck is zero off???

As I understand it, in a tournament situation (wakeboarding excluded), speed is calculated WITHOUT regard to current. That is, it is the time it takes to get from fixed point A to fixed point B. That being the case, Zero Off is actually far more accurate from a tournament perspective. Speed across the surface of the water is irrelevant.

This is correct. Time through the buoys is how a ski course works. Incidentally, I believe most ski tournaments are held on water with little or no current, and there are rules regarding max current speed. ZeroGPS will shine in this situation.

Unfortunately, 75% of inboards (number out of thin air, probably higher) are sold for wakeboarding, not skiing, where speed over water means everything. Not an issue if there's no current, but where I wakeboard, definitely an issue.

I love the idea, just needs some refinement.

[DanielC]

Speed in a slalom course is speed over land. You have to cover the 855 feet within a certain time tolerance to have a legal run. If your slalom course is set up in a river with a 5 mph current, that is too bad, you still have to complete the course within the time allowance. The gps based system should be able to measure this accurately. On the other hand, PP uses timing magnets to determine if the boat is staying within the time tolerance. Any system will require adjustment and practice to optimize. The main advantage of the systems is that it reduces driver influences on the run. A good driver could actually help a skier through a course, and still meet the time tolerance. PP eliminated that, and gave all of us an equal system that we could practice with, and allowed us to practice with out having to hire world class drivers to drive all the time.