Best 351 performance upgrade?

[TRBenj]

Those heads are not cheap to buy even if you can find them.

They can actually be found pretty easily- and theyre not expensive. The GT40p heads are also readily available and are an even better set of heads (better flow and higher compression). You can find them for $350-600 for a fully rebuilt set.

[bchesley]

Sorry I meant new. I just bought a set second hand. My point was to who ever you bought the boat from should be buying you a new set.

[bobchris]

Sorry I meant new. I just bought a set second hand. My point was to who ever you bought the boat from should be buying you a new set.

well it's not the sellers fault the guy buying it didn't know what to look for or what questions to ask before buying it. The seller shouldn't have to pay to replace something that wasn't on the boat when it was sold, the seller shouldn't have to disclose every single thing they know about the boat unless asked. You don't have to volenteer information you have to answer questions truthfully if asked a question regarding it's use or condition, but you don't have to say anything unless asked bottom line. So don't crusify the seller, bitch at the buyer for being stupid and not being educated on what they are buying.


Legally the buyer has nothing to stand on used boats/cars are bought "as is" end of story so if your too stupid to not know what the **** your buying it's you own **** fault.

[MHayes]

The seller shouldn't have to pay to replace something that wasn't on the boat when it was sold, the seller shouldn't have to disclose every single thing they know about the boat unless asked. You don't have to volenteer information you have to answer questions truthfully if asked a question regarding it's use or condition, but you don't have to say anything unless asked bottom line.

Nice attitude there bobchris; it seems to be consistent with all of your other posts where you rip into people for no reason at all! I feel sorry for anyone that buys anything from you. Ethically, I would hope someone would be open about something they're selling instead of being shady and not disclosing the facts.

[bobchris]

The seller shouldn't have to pay to replace something that wasn't on the boat when it was sold, the seller shouldn't have to disclose every single thing they know about the boat unless asked. You don't have to volenteer information you have to answer questions truthfully if asked a question regarding it's use or condition, but you don't have to say anything unless asked bottom line.

Nice attitude there bobchris; it seems to be consistent with all of your other posts where you rip into people for no reason at all! I feel sorry for anyone that buys anything from you. Ethically, I would hope someone would be open about something they're selling instead of being shady and not disclosing the facts.

selling 101, my point is if you don't know what your buying don't blame the seller or feel like the seller owes you something because of your own stupidity and not relizing that your buying a fake or altered item.

[bchesley]

Bobchris,

do you sell used cars for a living? Just curious. If you were to go look at a boat, open the engine cover, and expose a GT40 motor wouldnt you expect it to have GT40 heads? I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing that I just sold a boat and did not disclose everything about it.

PS. Making a note to never buy boat from Bobchris............

[horkn]

the heads are an easy find, seach for GT40 P heads in a mustang magazine. throw a coat of paint on the outside of the heads and you are set.

that's all DIM does....

I have considered doing the same on my non HO 351. but I will probably jsut upgrade to a newer bowrider, since space is limited on my 78 martinique closed bow

same with the edelbrock performer carb intake, notice how they do not mention the edelbrock part number???


Not that I have any issue with DIM, they have a lot of good parts in one spot, but if you are smart, you can save yourself some $$ for the same part.

DIM did however tell me NOT to run a 4 blade prop on my CC, I did it with ACME's recomendation, and have been bvery happy since I did that back in 02.

[horkn]

The seller shouldn't have to pay to replace something that wasn't on the boat when it was sold, the seller shouldn't have to disclose every single thing they know about the boat unless asked. You don't have to volenteer information you have to answer questions truthfully if asked a question regarding it's use or condition, but you don't have to say anything unless asked bottom line.

Nice attitude there bobchris; it seems to be consistent with all of your other posts where you rip into people for no reason at all! I feel sorry for anyone that buys anything from you. Ethically, I would hope someone would be open about something they're selling instead of being shady and not disclosing the facts.

selling 101, my point is if you don't know what your buying don't blame the seller or feel like the seller owes you something because of your own stupidity and not relizing that your buying a fake or altered item.

it is a tight line to walk though. In this case, there is nothing anyone could do about the dealer selling it not having gt40 heads on it. now in my boats caser, it was sold to me by a nautique dealer witha non marine carb on it, and it wasnt even anywhere tuned to where a holley 4160 that should be ona 351w PCM. legally this one could be a tight line since it had no j tubes. But I sucked it up after i found out about the tubes, and put a marinized 600cfm holley on it. simply adding the j tubes to my old carb would never pass for what should have been on it. the metering block and the body were 1960s vintage with the tube in the body and not enough venturi.

[81nautique]

the heads are an easy find, seach for GT40 P heads in a mustang magazine. throw a coat of paint on the outside of the heads and you are set.

that's all DIM does....

Last time I looked Dim wasn't selling GT40P heads just the old GT40 and it clearly states NEW CASTINGS.

And don't forget to put bronze freeze plugs in those Mustang heads.

[horkn]

Those are GT40P heads that DIM sells....


yes, bronze/ brass or any non ferric freeze plugs would be a good idea, but not entirely necessary if used on a FW boat.

[TRBenj]

Those are GT40P heads that DIM sells....

No theyre not. 81Nautique is right on.

SkiDIM's site says:

"These are the original GT40 heads with bronze freeze plugs and inserts (1991 and up HO Ford 351W).

The heads pictured are for reference only. Your head will be brand new and packaged in it's own box.

302 and 351 Windsor Heads are interchangable, 302 head bolt holes must be drilled slightly for 351 head bolts. If using 351 heads on a 302 special bolts are available from auto parts store.
For carbureted engines the GT40 "P" (automotive 302) head is a nice alternative to the GT40. If using "P" heads in salt water it is recommended to replace the freeze plugs with brass. "

Note that they are original GT40 heads (not GT40p's). The bottom part of the description regarding the GT40p's is correct- but note thats just an FYI, theyre not selling the P's.

[horkn]

well, DIM used to sell the gt40p's, and fwiw, the p is a better head than the normal gt40 iron head.

Ford redesigned the heads on the explorers so that they would meet emissions in the final years of the non IRS equipped redesigned explorer. See the newer tech modular engines (4.6, 5.4) would not fit in the engine bay of the old explorer since the modular motors are perhaps the widest v8 motor ever made by ford. The heads on those last couple of year 5.0 explorers ( ending in 02 IIRC) were gt40p heads, and were of course EFI. You can use these p heads on a carbed or an efi 302/ 351. But most if not all PCM 351 EFI motors already have gt40 heads, so throwing a set of GT40p heads will net not much difference on an efi motor. For what DIM sells these for, you might as well get marinized AFR's.

Having been a ford guy all my life, and having two 5.0 mustangs I understand full and well the background of these heads

Although I will admit I had not looked on DIM's site for a while, and since DIM kept the P head pic up, I was incorrect saying DIM still sells the P heads.

I saw the angled plug holes and instantly knew the pic was of the P head.

I suppose this is why lawyers and small print exist. LOL

[81nautique]

Yes, do a search on ccfan about gt40 heads and you'll see we all know the diiferences that's why most are running P heads with the smaller combustion chambers. And although I like the folks over at DIM, for the price they want for those gt40 they will probably sit on the shelf for an aweful long time.

[TRBenj]

well, DIM used to sell the gt40p's, and fwiw, the p is a better head than the normal gt40 iron head.

Ford redesigned the heads on the explorers so that they would meet emissions in the final years of the non IRS equipped redesigned explorer. See the newer tech modular engines (4.6, 5.4) would not fit in the engine bay of the old explorer since the modular motors are perhaps the widest v8 motor ever made by ford. The heads on those last couple of year 5.0 explorers ( ending in 02 IIRC) were gt40p heads, and were of course EFI. You can use these p heads on a carbed or an efi 302/ 351. But most if not all PCM 351 EFI motors already have gt40 heads, so throwing a set of GT40p heads will net not much difference on an efi motor. For what DIM sells these for, you might as well get marinized AFR's.

Having been a ford guy all my life, and having two 5.0 mustangs I understand full and well the background of these heads

Although I will admit I had not looked on DIM's site for a while, and since DIM kept the P head pic up, I was incorrect saying DIM still sells the P heads.

I saw the angled plug holes and instantly knew the pic was of the P head.

I suppose this is why lawyers and small print exist. LOL

You dont have to educate me on the GT40p's, as Ive been running them on my boat for 2 seasons. Im well aware of the differences between the P's and the standard GT40's. Ford started putting them in the 5.0 (302) Explorers and Mountaineers in mid-year '97, by the way.

As far as I know, SkiDIM has never sold the P heads. Theyve always sold the standard GT40's, as they were the heads used on all PCM (ProBoss/GT40) and Mastercraft/Indmar (HO) 351w's.

[horkn]

DIM did sell GT40P heads back in 01 or 02.

they don't now, so it is kind of a moot point.

I know when ford started selling 5.0 explorers, like I said, as a ford guy I know this. I was never suggesting that ford had 5.0 explorers without having gt40p heads, they all were, making used sets easy to find.

Now I am looking for a set of nice rebuilt gt40p or gt40 iron heads for my 78, now that I have the performer intake to install.

30 year old head gaskets might be a good reason to swap the heads out.