Best 351 performance upgrade?

[TRBenj]

well Tim you really should look at your own postings before you start talking *** so pull your little chart crap up and at the top, sellect 351W ported and then select gt-40p explorer as that's the BS you have and tell which has the better flow numbers? and it sure as he ll isn't the p's OK, SO pay close attention to the valve sizes to as they are exactly the same has what I have installed in mine.

so those p's are so good up too .500 lift then the intake takes a dump once you have more lift than that where the ported 351W don't drop off.

so p's to the 351's intake/ex flow numbers at .500/.600

p's 196 193 ex 139 142
w's 221 224 ex 171 172

is interupting your own information proof enough that the heads I have bet you BS hands down as the number do indicate that what I have flows more on intake and exhaust than your p's. So now will step of your soap box and admitt they are not as good as the heads I have, because the p's have lower compression, lower flow, and the valve train is not as strong either so since they don't win in any category how the hel are they better because the cost less big deal you get what you pay for.

Chris, you make valid points, but you forgot a few key issues.

1. Not all port jobs are created equal. Post some flow numbers.

2. The cam you had in your '79 was on the range of .476/.481, correct? How important is flow above .500 in a ski boat? My .490/.490 has a powerband of 2500-5200. You cant go much wilder without hurting holeshot. In a track car with a high stall, those D0OE's might be the ticket, but not in our boats.

3. 2 cc's (57cc vs. 59cc) makes a difference of less than a quarter of a point in CR. Hardly a huge advantage like youre claiming. The difference is about the same as the allowable casting variation!

4. Cost is always a factor! I think that $600 P heads with upgraded valve springs and a 5 angle VJ are a bargain. However, the closer you creep to that $1k mark, youre almost in the ballpark of some very nice aftermarket cast iron heads (RHS, World Products, etc). At that point, does it really make sense to continue throwing money at a factory set of heads?

[bobchris]

Everything I have read say's the p's are 60's and reg 40's are 64cc's, and you can still have low in grunt and still have legs on the top end which yours doesn't, Mark's and mine where the only ones that had any legs to them and that's the way I had the motor set up, yea I could have changed props and got a better holes shot but I don't like spining it over 6K like it did with the smaller prop that's why I used the 470 with the 1:1 tranny. With the roller's and pedistol mounts they won't last near as long as what I have I didn't care about price I wanted what I had made and they are much better than the p's plain and simple so please quite saying they are the best because they are not, they might be the best for under 600 bucks but they do not keep up with the big dogs bottom end flow or top end flow or durability either so enjoy what you have but you really need to quit saying they are the best thing going bescause they are about third or fourth inline Timmy comparing apples to apples and that's flow rates.

[TRDon]

TRBenj and Bobchris both put up some good points, but I am leaning toward Tim on this one.

I would like to see flow numbers to substanciate the heads you are selling as being better than XXXXX head. No numbers, no proof, sorry man, but facts are facts. A full flow sheet for usable RPM for a boat would be helpful.

[bobchris]

So tell me do you know what the difference is between a D0OE, D7OE or a D8OE head castings? one is from 1969 and the others are newer and the only thing that was change was the combustion chambers where increased in the later. So if the data presented isn't good enough sorry about your luck, I know these will flow those numbers easily. I also know most hot rod guys don't even mess with the p's or reg 40's they are using D0OE heads with 2.02/1.60 valves in them and porting them and cleaning up the exhaust bowls or they are using AFR 185's. Now if there was a place to bench test the heads locally I would have done that, but there's not and I really don't care about the exact numbers, now if your interested in buying them and need the EXACT flow data then sure I would take them somewhere and have them flow tested for you but you will be paying for the test up front then if you do buy them I would knock that off of the price. I don't need to have them tested has I read way to much about them and how they beat the 40's all of the time. Tim keeps harping on one artical and that's it, yea they are a good bargain are they the best out there NO not even close to a country mile.

[TRDon]

I know they arent the best and no where did he ever say they were. What he did say (If I may speak for him) is that they are the best performance bargain for the dollar. I can take stock heads from nearly any year, do a port job, 5 angle, mill to flat and 57cc as well as throw a stud kit for the rockers in, but that doesnt mean that after all that work and money they could be better/worse than a proven set of Ps that can be had for around 600 brand new. I know a lot of people who bought GT40 heads for their mustang for 200 and thought it was a good deal. After a valve job, cleaning, and milling for flatness it ended up being the same price anyway. That was a wash in that situation. Not saying you dont have heads that flow better, ect. But if there are no numbers to prove that they are in fact a better performance bargain over new heads for 600, it may not be worth it at all. If they are so much better and other guys know it, sell them on the other guys website and it should be no problem for you.

[TRDon]

So tell me do you know what the difference is between a D0OE, D7OE or a D8OE head castings? one is from 1969 .

D0OE is a head engineered and used in 1970. D=7 0=0 I know how to read casting numbers. Apparently I know the difference more than you do :rolleyes: You are blowing up about something you think I know nothing about again. I know my way around a windsor. You saying they flow better doenst mean anything until it is proven on a flow bench. If it cant be proven, it cant be claimed unless you have a dyno sheet of comparison of that head vs GT40P of the same motor.

[bobchris]

interresting fact about ford 302 heads from 1969, they are cast with 302 and 69 right next to D0OE if they are the real deal but most are C9OE. http://www.aacncclub.com/FORD_HEAD_C...ml#ford302head

I'll unwrap them and post a picture in a couple weeks when I'm over at the barn where they are stored. And then maybe you'll learn something since your so smart about fords.

[TRDon]

interresting fact about ford 302 heads from 1969, they are cast with 302 and 69 right next to D0OE if they are the real deal but most are C9OE. http://www.aacncclub.com/FORD_HEAD_C...ml#ford302head

That link of yours says nothing confirming anything about what you said. Nor will taking a picture in a couple weeks either.

[bobchris]

it just state where the casting numbers are located on the heads and what information is actuall on them. But being the ford guy you are you all ready knew where they are located and what the markings should be and what they mean too.

[TRDon]

I dont need a link that says where the numbers are. I want a link confirming what you say is true about the numbers. Kinda like a flow sheet that you dont have to prove anything about the heads flowing better than the mississippi.

[bobchris]

but your the ford guy that knows it all and know's the D0OE are from a 1970, Right. I'm sure you did the research I did before I modified the D0OE heads I have from 1969 and then you would have read all of the articalls that state that if the D0OE's valve are replaced and the bowls are cleaned up and ported they out flow and out perform any version of the GT-40 head. I don't need the numbers I've done the research all ready and seen the proof doesn't matter if your an a s s and don't believe me, google the crap and do your own research like I did it's all in Black and White with flow numbers port sizes, valve size, runner length the whole nine yard so there really isn't a need to redo something that is well documented all ready. And the p's realy aren't that big of a bargain to start with if you are paying 600 for them at 400 they are but, I picked up my D0OE's for 40 bucks spent 627 to have them machined, and had new guide plates, ARP studs, .600 lift springs, new hardned seats, new valve guide seals, and new retainers installed and included in that price for machining. So for that extra 100 bucks I get a set of heads that out flow, are easier to adjust, and are more durable than any stock GT-40 head design out there sorry if you don't spend the time I did researching the topic before I bought and modified what I did.

[NautiqueJeff]

Ok, this has gone far enough.