G23 Surf Set Up

[jasander77]

200hr / year with just the two of you is a solid amount of practice! With such a light crew you would really benefit from another 300 lbs of lead (800 lb total). I often surf with just my son (160lbs) and my daughter (100lbs). I have found that 800lbs of lead was the sweet spot with such a small crew. I also fill the gas tank every time we go out. Best of luck!

Definitely a solid amount of practice in there, but unfortunately it doesn't translate into much. Seems like I should be much further along at this point. Haven't had an opportunity to go out with anyone that knows more than I do. Watched tons of videos, but they don't generate feedback on what I'm doing wrong. Can catch some decent tweaked airs on occasion and recently have attempted doing board grabs. The elusive consistent 360 is the most frustrating. I've can do several a day or none. Have nailed up to 8 360s on a single run only to not get another for several. Lot's more to learn, but at the point where I need some coaching I think.

Not trying to hijack this thread … so will leave it at that.

I usually ride at NSS 0, NCRS 5 and 11.7 … was riding at 12.3 until recently. Slowing down really helped the 360 attempts. I dropped NCRS down to 3 yesterday and the length difference with only 500# of lead is substantial. Based on the length of our surf rope … pretty sure I was riding 15' or more behind the boat with only a driver. Quite impressed. Adding another 300# is tempting, but I'm currently happy with it. I still have a 750# and a 400# fat sac lying around if want to amp it up any more.

[greggmck]

Coaching can help significantly with your progression. When we first starting surfing we had several pros come help us set up our wave, adjust our speed and introduce us to foundational tricks (drive, lip slide, board slide, floater, chop hop, ollie). These tricks are so important and are elements of so many advanced tricks. Many riders do not learn them and go straight to the 360 only to have their progress completely stall because they lack a solid foundation.

I have also found that new riders like to speed up the boat. This makes the wave firmer and more fun for carving but it makes tricks much more difficult. 11.4 is the fastest I would recommend for learning new tricks and 11.2 is probably ideal in most cases. You are not alone on the 360, they can be one of the most inconsistent tricks even for advanced riders. There are several ways to do 360s (crouching two hand grab, crouching one hand grab, standing one hand grab, etc..) and I have found that consistency is best when one learns the lip-slide initiated 360. The lip slide (unweighting your front foot and sliding the lip of the board across the top of the wave) is one of the most foundational tricks in wake surfing. When you begin a lip slide you are upright with your weight and head over your board. This is key to consistent 360s. Watch most people and they are bent over, this makes the 360 very inconsistent because balance and weighting of the board are so variable when you are bent over.

Here is a video of my son years ago when he was learning 360s. He first drives into an air, lip slides, lip slides then does a standing 360: https://youtu.be/IBEbRkTU7-g

I always made him do 2 or 3 lip slides before initiating every 360 to gain this muscle memory. The key to the lip slide is first drive into the boat to have some manageable speed. To initiate the lip slide shift 80% of your weight on your rear toes, and think of taking your front foot and lifting it up onto the top of the wave to initiate a sideways slide with your board. Do this until you feel very comfortable.

To initiate the 360 simply drive into the boat, touch the top of the wave with just your fingers, begin the lip slide and force the front of the board all the way around with your front foot while turning your head to spot the boat. This ensures you are standing tall, and you have most of your weight on your rear foot. In this position the 360 can be done with a high degree of reliability.

To do huge airs requires one to master ollie in the flats and then drive to generate speed first.

Ollie in the flats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H0mV4ip9pU

Pumping to create speed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdAAAObBEic

Good luck

[jasander77]

Thank you for the additional tips. I've got all of the foundational tricks down well … except the lip slide. Every time I attempt one, my board wants to go straight over the wave. I did my first couple 360s probably two years ago and didn't do another one until after we bought our G last year. I started out bent over way too much and eventually found standing more upright to be the answer, but I still can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong when I don't land them. It goes by fast and doesn't feel anything like it looks. I typically get enough air doing ollies and tweaked airs to see both fins out of the wave several inches, but nothing compared to what your son and other competitors are doing. I don't always remember to bring my knees up either. When I really try to drive up the wave I always get spray over the toe side and end up losing most of my speed. Using a Soulcraft Secret Weapon btw.

I tried slowing the speed down to 11.4 yesterday, but quickly remembered we go faster because slower than 11.6 starts to get washy on goofy side? Have any suggestions on reducing this wash?

[GMLIII]

Thank you for the additional tips. I've got all of the foundational tricks down well … except the lip slide. Every time I attempt one, my board wants to go straight over the wave. I did my first couple 360s probably two years ago and didn't do another one until after we bought our G last year. I started out bent over way too much and eventually found standing more upright to be the answer, but I still can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong when I don't land them. It goes by fast and doesn't feel anything like it looks. I typically get enough air doing ollies and tweaked airs to see both fins out of the wave several inches, but nothing compared to what your son and other competitors are doing. I don't always remember to bring my knees up either. When I really try to drive up the wave I always get spray over the toe side and end up losing most of my speed. Using a Soulcraft Secret Weapon btw.

I tried slowing the speed down to 11.4 yesterday, but quickly remembered we go faster because slower than 11.6 starts to get washy on goofy side? Have any suggestions on reducing this wash?

I’m interested in this post as well . Similar skill level with me

[greggmck]

Thank you for the additional tips. I've got all of the foundational tricks down well … except the lip slide. Every time I attempt one, my board wants to go straight over the wave. I did my first couple 360s probably two years ago and didn't do another one until after we bought our G last year. I started out bent over way too much and eventually found standing more upright to be the answer, but I still can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong when I don't land them. It goes by fast and doesn't feel anything like it looks. I typically get enough air doing ollies and tweaked airs to see both fins out of the wave several inches, but nothing compared to what your son and other competitors are doing. I don't always remember to bring my knees up either. When I really try to drive up the wave I always get spray over the toe side and end up losing most of my speed. Using a Soulcraft Secret Weapon btw.

I tried slowing the speed down to 11.4 yesterday, but quickly remembered we go faster because slower than 11.6 starts to get washy on goofy side? Have any suggestions on reducing this wash?

I have found that the goofy wave can get washy when fuel is below 50%, especially when running NCRS 3 or below. Also having a ladder when running low on fuel can disrupt the wave even more. But with full fuel you should have a very clean goofy wave at 11.2 or faster.

The best way to learn the lip slide is to do it on the rope. Shorten the rope so you are in the spot where you would hit the wave to do an air and practice lip slides in this location by holding the rope only in your forward hand in the center of the handle. Hold the rope in the center because you dont want your hand catching in the corner of the handle when you fall. Left hand on regular side and right hand on goofy.

Try to find that point where you can balance on the ball of your back foot while lifting your front foot up on to the top of the wave. It will take some getting use to before you master the slide. Once you can do it cleanly on the rope, toss the rope and drive into the boat as if you were going to do an air but instead lip slide until you can get your back to the boat. Learning the lip slide is easier when you have momentum driving into the boat.

Once you can lip slide cleanly, drift to the back of the wave, drift up to the top of the wave and do an easy drive down the wave to the boat, put your back hand behind you slightly into the top of the wave, check your balance so you are over your board, it helps to look into the boat, as you hit that spot where you want to execute your 360 aim your board to go up the wave, execute the lip slide but this time force your front foot all the way around like you were using your foot to clear a semicircle in the snow. I have found that as you start in the rear of the wave drift up then down the wave without too much effort you will gain the correct amount of forward speed to execute the 360. Also by pointing your board up the wave will allow the fins to rotate more easily in the side of the wave. Practice this because you will find a point on the wave where 360s are magically easy. This is because in the right spot of the wave the fins will break free and the board will effortlessly rotate. Too close to the boat the water is too hard and you will catch an edge. Too far back and you loose the wave. Consistency has a lot to do with learning the sweet spot on the wave.

Good luck!

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[FLKeysSurf]

Hey guys, new to PN, just bought a 2019 G25 and loving everything about it. To the point of this thread, we have the Pro Ballast with 650# sacs in the lockers and 600#-ish sac under the front seats. Played around with the various NSS/NCRS combos and ultimately just set it to 0/5 and called it a day. Seems lower NCRS washes out pretty quickly, but we mostly ride in the ocean so the more aggressive settings seem to power thru our normal chop really well.

Curious to load some lead on the port side, as our regular wave seems to be a bit better than goofy. Adding port weight seems counterintuitive to improving the goofy wave, but will give it a try. Then again, maybe my wife (regular rider ...) is simply better than me.

[greggmck]

Hey guys, new to PN, just bought a 2019 G25 and loving everything about it. To the point of this thread, we have the Pro Ballast with 650# sacs in the lockers and 600#-ish sac under the front seats. Played around with the various NSS/NCRS combos and ultimately just set it to 0/5 and called it a day. Seems lower NCRS washes out pretty quickly, but we mostly ride in the ocean so the more aggressive settings seem to power thru our normal chop really well.

Curious to load some lead on the port side, as our regular wave seems to be a bit better than goofy. Adding port weight seems counterintuitive to improving the goofy wave, but will give it a try. Then again, maybe my wife (regular rider ...) is simply better than me.

Weight in the lockers for the 2016+ hull will result in a washed out surf wave, especially with lower NCRS. For the cleanest surf wave the newer hulls want the weight in the center to forward locations. There are a number of threads on this...

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[FLKeysSurf]

Weight in the lockers for the 2016+ hull will result in a washed out surf wave, especially with lower NCRS. For the cleanest surf wave the newer hulls want the weight in the center to forward locations. There are a number of threads on this...

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Ha, guess I have some reading to do ...

[GMLIII]

Gregg thanks all the advice, very helpful info.

[greggmck]

Ha, guess I have some reading to do ...

Yea, I believe weight in the rear lockers is fine for wakeboarding but not for surfing. Too much weight, even people in the rear will result in a washed out wave at NCRS 3 or lower because water will flow over the NSS plates.

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[surfnjosh]

Hey guys, new to PN, just bought a 2019 G25 and loving everything about it. To the point of this thread, we have the Pro Ballast with 650# sacs in the lockers and 600#-ish sac under the front seats. Played around with the various NSS/NCRS combos and ultimately just set it to 0/5 and called it a day. Seems lower NCRS washes out pretty quickly, but we mostly ride in the ocean so the more aggressive settings seem to power thru our normal chop really well.

Curious to load some lead on the port side, as our regular wave seems to be a bit better than goofy. Adding port weight seems counterintuitive to improving the goofy wave, but will give it a try. Then again, maybe my wife (regular rider ...) is simply better than me.

Ive never even heard of the "pro ballast" in a G. maybe in a 210 or 230 but never seen that as an option from the dealer in a G, sure seems odd a dealer would sell it like that knowing what rear weight does, but hey im only a surf guy so maybe the wakeboarders ?

[mintmonkey]

Wondering if anyone has any good tips for surf settings with a full boat? We are in a 2020 G23 and our wave is awesome when its just my wife and I + one other couple. Typically ride 11.2 - 11.6, NCRS 3-4, NSS 0, full ballast. However, when we get 6-8 adults plus kids in the boat its a different story, have been struggling to get a good wave especially on the starboard/goofy side. Am consistently getting a washed out wave or a wave that has this weird double lip. Have played with NCRS a bit, wave is cleaner at 5 but also super steep. Have also reduced ballast down to 60% in port/starboard and 80% in belly but didn't seem to have much of an effect. Help!

[greggmck]

You generally need ballast in the bow and mid section to offset all the weight in the rear especially if you dont have a full tank of gas. Too much weight in the rear will wash over the NSS and blow out the wave.

Here is a pic my recommendation setup tested and refined by 6 Pros and World Champions.

If you don't have ballast in the bow/front seat area then have a couple of your crew sit in the bow or take out 20 to 30% of rear ballast.

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[mintmonkey]

That makes sense. I actually do have lead in the boat, I should have mentioned that. 200 lbs in bow, 200lbs under passenger, 100 each port and starboard middle. Do you think I should be taking out more ballast with the combination of a full crew + lead?

[greggmck]

With that lead setup you should be fine with 5 to 6 people or about 900lbs of total body weight. I dont usually remove ballast until I have more than 6 adults. With such a heavy load I will need to remove rear ballast sooner if my fuel is below 40% because that is weight lost in the forward section of the boat. So I always try to surf with 70% to full fuel.

Do you have a thruster or ladder? I have seen situations where with too many people the ladder will scrub the wave. Finally when I'm running low on fuel my thruster can interfere with the goofy wave even with just 3 or 4 in the boat.

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