GS22 Surf Wave - help dialing it in

[Vhayne]

I purchased a 2017 GS22 at the end of summer in 2018. Knew nothing about surfing, but wanted a boat that my family and I could learn how to surf behind. Demoed it, the salesman surfed behind it for a minute or so, and we figured it was good-to-go. I mean it does say "SURF" on the side of the boat.....

Well fast forward to this season in 2020, and my family and I have learned how to surf - in a basic manner I guess. But for the life of me, we cannot seem to get a "longer" wave. I'm 6'1" 250lbs, using 2 different big boards by Ronix. The push, or pocket in our wave is literally a board's length from the swim deck. At the very beginning of the wave formation. If I fall out of that small spot, it's near impossible to get back in - at least for me and my size apparently. The "pocket" is a bit longer for the rest of my family (all less than 200lbs), but they are still only about 1-3 feet further back from where I have to be.

I see videos of Centurions boasting 36' of pushy wave length (obviously it's a skinny guy on a big board - but still). I see videos of other boats with these much longer beautiful waves, and people way bigger than me, MUCH further back on their waves (see wake9's youtube channel).

We had extra ballast bags installed last summer (2019) to try and help out the wave situation. It does, kindof? I mean, yeah I can get a tiny bit of push finally, but the pocket is so freaking small there is no room to play. Lighter people seem to have a little bit easier of a time, but it's nowhere near the kind of wave as seen in other videos of newer, bigger boats from other manufacturers. There seems to be a lack of GS22 surf videos or reviews....

I have tried so many combinations of different factors. Ballast weight, weight distribution, surf speed, NSS and NCRS. I honestly still do not know what the 0-5 settings do on both the NSS and NCRS (I do know the difference between the systems at least). It seems the forums posts are limited and are so vague (I had multiple people read them to see what they thought, and they come back confused as well).

All we do is surf - or attempt to. Every outing, we literally spend 80% of our time trying to "dial in the wave", and by the time we are all exhausted for the day, we still haven't made much progress. The next outing it's the same thing. Over and over again. Fight, fight, fight, get super tired (probably because we are fighting the wave all day), then go back home.

I am seriously considering that I made a massive mistake in choosing the GS22. The story was, I was actually looking at a Centurion Fi23, but the salesman at the dealer wanted me to consider this leftover from the previous year, GS22. We demoed both that day, and he downplayed the Fi23 totally. Grumbling about the tech and the systems, and totally pushed the GS22. Again, we had no idea. All we knew was it was a Nautique - rumored to be the "best". And yeah it's a great boat. Smooth, systems seem great. Interface is awesome. Quality everywhere. But man, the entire thing was to SURF! And so far....it's been a huge fail.


So I'm here asking for advice. I couldn't afford the G23 when I bought the GS22. Still probably cannot, unless it's used. So that's not much of an option. I'm open to suggestions on getting this wave where it needs to be, as well as saying, "screw this boat", and looking for a replacement. I just figured I'd come here and ask for some advice from you all. So tired of wasting my time. I literally have injured my arm from having to hold the rope while surfing because I'm fighting the wave so much (having to pull myself back up into that tiny tiny pocket).

[paticus]

Some initial questions to help us diagnose!

Where and how much extra ballast was installed on the boat?
I'm also curious about your crew while surfing. Is the boat full of adults or just small kids?
Does the wave look good?
Have you confirmed at least that the rear locker bags are full (the belly will be difficult to check)? I usually have to top off the larger bags as the default settings don't fill them up all the way. When full, water should be overflowing out the side of the boat, but even then, the bags could be tangled and not filling up.
Are you using the presets when surfing? (which auto activate NSS, NCRS, etc)

I'm 6'5" 250 lbs, and dealt with a similar situation in my SAN 230. The stock wave (with pro ballast) was meh. I swapped out the pro ballast bags with wake maker 650's, and it helped a bit. Then I added an extra 500 lbs of lead bags and it rips now. Even if you have 500 lbs of crew, its not the same as the lead ballast bags, which you can shove in direct corners of the boat maximize (and tune) leverage.

[greggmck]

As you know the GS22 is an all around boat, not a surf specific rig like the Centurion. I have extensive surf time behind both the Ri and Fi boats and they set up a nice surf wave. However, don't fall for the "longer" surf wave marketing. The surf system on a Centurion sets the wave up further behind the boat than the Nautique NSS. So while the surfer is further back on a Centurion you cant surf up close to the platform like you can on a Nautique. The surf sweet spot length on both boats is about the same. If you get within 5 to 8ft of the platform on a Centurion you will get sucked into the back of the boat and fall. On a Centurion the space directly behind the boat is unrideable.

Back to your wave. To get the most out of your wave it is first important to understand how to set it up properly.
For almost all circumstances set NSS=0 and LEAVE IT there.
NCRS will control the length and height of the wave. 5= shortest/steepest. Lower= longer/flatter.
Speed will also impact the length and height of the wave. Faster = flatter/longer. Slower = steeper/shorter.

As a baseline you should be running NSS=0. NCRS=3 to 5. Speed should be about 11.4 - 11.6.
In your case you might try something like NCRS=5 and speed up to 11.6 - 11.8.
This may produce the longest ridable wave that can be had behind a GS22.

After the surf configuration is set properly the next step is to add/place weight. It sounds like you have added bags. But how many people do you ride with? You might try inviting about 6-8 friend along. Have them sit evenly in the boat and see if this helps the wave. Move them all to the rear, then to the middle/front to see if that improves the wave. If adding bodies does not significantly improve the wave there is no need to waste money adding more weight.

Perhaps you could surf the boat in the configurations discussed above and then post a few pictures of the wave? We can try to help you dial it in from there.

But in the end you have an all-around boat. Not a dedicated surf rig and that may be what you really want anyway.

If you do get to the point of checking out new surf specific boats, I know this is a Nautique forum but I consider the Supreme ZS the boat I would buy if money were a concern. I have driven the boat in competition, surfed it extensively and in my opinion it produces the best surf wave one can buy for under $120K.

Below is a promotional video we did for Supreme when they sponsored our competition last year. (I get no compensation from them and I own a G23.)
If you look closely you can see the Mint colored Centruion Fi in the background that we also had available to us too. But I would surf the ZS all day. All the best!

https://vimeo.com/339618826

[steakNshake]

Same thing happened to me, bought a 2017 GS22, got addicted to surfing. I was so confused on how everyone else on every other boat ever made it look so easy. 2 problems, the stock wave isn't great for big guys and I was riding a hyperlite broadcast. I added 400lb sacs in each rear locker and 500lbs of lead in the cockpit and i'd say the way wave got 30% better. I rode NSS-0, NSCRS-5 at 11.5mph as well.

We ended up surfing 99.9% of the time, so I just ditched it and went with the G23 and it's a world of difference. The GS series just don't surf that great. I rode the Fi23 at the desert plunge last year and the wave was baller

Also, ditch the Ronix boards and go for a high end like Doomswell or Soulcraft voodoo, WORLD of difference is in the boards too.

I know price is always an issue, but my advice would be to get a surf boat and a better board and you'll just be happier all around. Maybe find a pro to give you a lesson too, just to make sure your technique is good as well, that helped me a ton.

[Vhayne]

Thanks guys for all the advice and help! I will absolutely try the different configurations you suggested. Sounds like I need to invest in some more boards and lead.

[Vhayne]

Some initial questions to help us diagnose!

Where and how much extra ballast was installed on the boat?
I'm also curious about your crew while surfing. Is the boat full of adults or just small kids?
Does the wave look good?
Have you confirmed at least that the rear locker bags are full (the belly will be difficult to check)? I usually have to top off the larger bags as the default settings don't fill them up all the way. When full, water should be overflowing out the side of the boat, but even then, the bags could be tangled and not filling up.
Are you using the presets when surfing? (which auto activate NSS, NCRS, etc)

I'm 6'5" 250 lbs, and dealt with a similar situation in my SAN 230. The stock wave (with pro ballast) was meh. I swapped out the pro ballast bags with wake maker 650's, and it helped a bit. Then I added an extra 500 lbs of lead bags and it rips now. Even if you have 500 lbs of crew, its not the same as the lead ballast bags, which you can shove in direct corners of the boat maximize (and tune) leverage.

1. I'm not entirely sure what size bags were installed. The dealership did it. I believe they are Wakemakers brand. When they are full, there is still about a foot-high clearance in the rear lockers.
2. My usual crew during the week (we work from home and homeschool, so take the boat out a lot during the week) is my wife (170), and 3 teenagers (140, 130, 80lbs) as well as myself at 250lbs.
3. Remember I'm still new and yet to really see what a proper wave "looks like". I'd say it looks "washy" at the top? I would also say it appears steep? It also has that "double-lip" thing I've read about, but it doesn't seem to matter too much to us. As suggested, I'll try to go out soon and take some pics, maybe some video as well.
4. Yes. Last year when they were installed we had numerous issues with the ballasts and the display readings. For example, when returning to the dock, I would empty them, and they would read 0% but when parked in the slip you could see it listing to the side. So after many visits by the servicemen that was "fixed". However, this season I've noticed that I will set them to 100% and I will still need to check to see if they are full visually because sometimes they won't always be. As for the sub-floor ballasts, I have no clue. Hoping the computer is accurate because that's all I can use. I did accidentally turn on the starboard side (which was already full) instead of the port side, and caught it a couple of minutes later. The bag looked like it was about to pop. So not sure if the whole "water overflowing out the side" thing is happening.
5. I tried using default settings at first. No push obviously. I believe it is 1 and 5? So we have been exploring the range of everything. Currently I think we are at 5 and 1 and 11.5mph with full belly full surf side and 80% on non-surf. It's not very good at all.


I've read about the 230. Apparently they are very similarly priced to the GS's. But they are more suited to wakeboarding and surfing, correct? I was never really given that option or information when purchasing (still my fault though) because I was "getting such a great deal" on the year-old, new GS22....

[kylant]

I have a '19 GS22, I also had a '17 GS20. The 20 did not have anymore ballast than the stock (no pro-ballast). I could surf that boat all day.
My 22 had pro ballast, now has the Wakemakers bags (they used my boat to prototype and update the bags for the '19 changes). They are 800# each. I don't think they have any other size for the GS boats.

Our wave is very big/good.

We surf 100% full, NCRS usually 4 and NSS usually 2. speed is 11.5-11.8. We shift people around in the boat as need. I also have 150# of lead under the port observers seat and 50# right behind the driver. (this is primarily to balance the boat when skiing.)

The wave is not terribly long, but is rideable further back.

I think the key is the board and the speed of the boat. you need a faster board. I ride a Phase 5 Model X. It is pretty fast. I am looking at a Doomswell Neo now.

Play with it, good luck

[Vhayne]

I've been riding a Ronix Koal Technora Powerfish+ 5' 3", and a Ronix Flyweight Conductor 5'. My wife and kids ride a Liquid Force Rocket 5'4" and just starting to move to a Hyperlite Automatic 5'. I'll look into the other boards mentioned. Which Doomswell board? Also, what mistake did I make in choosing the boards I am using?

[enjoinick]

I have a '19 GS22, I also had a '17 GS20. The 20 did not have anymore ballast than the stock (no pro-ballast). I could surf that boat all day.
My 22 had pro ballast, now has the Wakemakers bags (they used my boat to prototype and update the bags for the '19 changes). They are 800# each. I don't think they have any other size for the GS boats.

Our wave is very big/good.

We surf 100% full, NCRS usually 4 and NSS usually 2. speed is 11.5-11.8. We shift people around in the boat as need. I also have 150# of lead under the port observers seat and 50# right behind the driver. (this is primarily to balance the boat when skiing.)

The wave is not terribly long, but is rideable further back.

I think the key is the board and the speed of the boat. you need a faster board. I ride a Phase 5 Model X. It is pretty fast. I am looking at a Doomswell Neo now.

Play with it, good luck

kylant Does your wake have a hard line traveling down the middle of it. I have been trying to mess around with my 19' GS22 to get line higher up the wave and havent found the right settings yet. I dont have pro-ballast system or wavemakers bags.

[mcosub]

I have a '19 GS22, I also had a '17 GS20. The 20 did not have anymore ballast than the stock (no pro-ballast). I could surf that boat all day.
My 22 had pro ballast, now has the Wakemakers bags (they used my boat to prototype and update the bags for the '19 changes). They are 800# each. I don't think they have any other size for the GS boats.

Our wave is very big/good.

We surf 100% full, NCRS usually 4 and NSS usually 2. speed is 11.5-11.8. We shift people around in the boat as need. I also have 150# of lead under the port observers seat and 50# right behind the driver. (this is primarily to balance the boat when skiing.)

The wave is not terribly long, but is rideable further back.

I think the key is the board and the speed of the boat. you need a faster board. I ride a Phase 5 Model X. It is pretty fast. I am looking at a Doomswell Neo now.

Play with it, good luck

We surf a model X and really like it as well. We surf starboard side and our settings are NSS 0, NCRS 5 and speed at 10.9. We have pro ballast and I fill belly and starboard 100% and Port to 60%. I have 250# of lead in the boat. 100 under the observers seat and 150# under the bow seats. This gives us a good wave even with nobody else in the boat and our lake is only about 10' deep. I am sure a deeper lake would get the wave a little bigger.

[kylant]

kylant Does your wake have a hard line traveling down the middle of it. I have been trying to mess around with my 19' GS22 to get line higher up the wave and havent found the right settings yet. I dont have pro-ballast system or wavemakers bags.

yes it does. I ride starboard, and I don't really seem to notice it when surfing. It is very obvious from the boat though.
I haven't paid much attention to the port side.

[kylant]

We surf a model X and really like it as well. We surf starboard side and our settings are NSS 0, NCRS 5 and speed at 10.9. We have pro ballast and I fill belly and starboard 100% and Port to 60%. I have 250# of lead in the boat. 100 under the observers seat and 150# under the bow seats. This gives us a good wave even with nobody else in the boat and our lake is only about 10' deep. I am sure a deeper lake would get the wave a little bigger.

does your lead distribution keep the boat running flat at cruise or ski speed?

when skiing, my wife driving and 2 kids on the port side, the boat rides pretty flat with 150# under the observers seat and 50# on driver side. I would like to get the 50# hidden somewhere. I also have access to more weight if needed.

[LKAhornz]

I have a 2019 GS22 with pro ballast and was having the same issues as described in the post. I had the speed set at factory of 11.2 and settings at NSS 0 and NCRS 5. I was also riding an old Connelly ride (or trying to). I decided to have a surf pro on my boat, who rode the wave and commented that it was just fine and a great wave to ride. He moved a few people around the boat and settled on NSS at 2 and NCRS at 5, while speeding the boat up to 11.4. As a bigger guy, I also switched up to his Phase 5 Kong. I bring this up as you can't forget about the difference the right board makes. It can make a world of difference. I may consider moving to the 800# wakemaker setup as everyone on the boat gets better, but this wave is definitely fun and plenty surfable.

I absolutely love the G23, but I wouldn't consider selling my GS22 yet. It's wave is great for the non-pro and the boat handles as nice as any boat I've ever driven for the times you aren't surfing.

[kylant]

I think I have settled on 100% full belly tank, 75% filled port tank and 100% filled starboard tank. this is with wakemakers bags. i also moved my 200# of leaf into the bow (i’m gonna a add another 100# to balance it more)
NSS 0 and NCRS 3
speed 12 mph

wave is big and longer with the speed.

[mcosub]

thanks for the update. sounds like you got it figured