Bye-Bye ballast valves!

[Mikeski]

After three frustrating years dealing with the factory ballast valve/switch combination in my 2005 SV211 I finally replaced the fill pumps with impeller pumps and eliminated the cable valves. Since I had already had to pull one of the rear tanks to access the platform bracket to install my Fresh Air Exhaust, I decided to go ahead and replace the aerator pumps with impeller pumps.

Last weekend I went out on the water for the first time with the new system and it worked flawlessly. Not a drop in the tanks after my slalom runs and no need to power to prime the fill pumps.

To make the change I pulled the fill pumps and attached 1" pump intake hoses directly to the brass inlet shutoff valves. I could have used 3/4 hose but the 1" fittings work better so I went ahead and upsized the hose to 1" for all of the fill lines. The three new impeller pumps are mounted to the top rail of the ski tow support crossmember inside the motor compartment. The new impellers are easily accessible for replacement when needed. The pumps make a bit more noise than the aerator pumps but it's just enough noise so you don't forget to turn them off. I often overfilled the center tank with the previous pumps, I run the center tank at 3/4 full when I am boarding.

It's a moderate job to make the change but not much harder than replacing the Flo-Rite valves with the TH Valves. I also moved the gauges down to where the valve controls were located so it's easier to see the level gauges now. The top portion of the control panel is now utilized for my audio interface panel. After seeing the mess of wires behind my factory SE fill/drain switches I decided to leave them alone. The new pumps are powered off relays triggered by the factory pump wiring. The impeller pumps pull significantly more power than the stock aerator pumps so the factory pump wires cannot be used.

This is one of the best modifications I have made to my boat. I highly recommend this modification to anybody that has cable valves on their boat.

[Turp]

Mike, not to be the PN stalker, but after the sub box project on 05 SV-211, this is the next big conversion, but have not seen a lot of info. on the actual instruction, pictures and etc. The big thing for me, can I wire new water puppy pumps to existing keyless pad and use same switching? A lot of folks are beginning this same process, as soon as they can afford it.

[Mikeski]

I still need to take some pictures of the pumps and post them.

If there is interest I will draw a schematic for the relay controls needed to interface into the stock LE/TE controls. The pump relays are triggered from the factory pump wires, no modifications needed to the stock system. This may result in a relay triggering another relay but that's OK. My relay box is self contained each pump has it's own circuit breaker and relay.

PM me if you want the info:
mikeskiw@gmail.com

[JUST-IN-TIME]

that whole cable thing always made us techs mad
they had updates
had recalls

it is just plain dumd

im glad u changed

[WakeSlayer]

hi Mike

I have a friend with an 05 SV-211 and we hate that stock system. Any info or pictures you can provide would be greatly appreciated. The schematic is a great idea.
I ripped the old stock system out of my 99SAN the day I got it, and put a nice auto system with the puppy pumps last year. Definitely the best upgrade done to the boat.

thanks in advance.

Mike

[JUST-IN-TIME]

guy going with the puppy pumps
they just came out with a new one which can handle the amp draw
they eariler versions can not

[Mikeski]

Guys,

I am working on a how-to with a parts list, diagrams, and pictures. Sorry it is taking time, mother's day today...

Mike

[MikeC]

Mike,
I've been thinking about doing the same thing to my boat for the last two seasons. And I'm also getting ready to pull a ballast tank out to install my FAE so now seems like a perfect time to tackle it. Your expertise and advice would be a great help. Thanks in advance.
Mike

[Mikeski]

How-To write-up

Finally I have some time to start the write-up.

A while back I went from the Flow-Rite valves to the TH Marine valves I should have just done this the first time around since it is not that much more work. Problems with the valved system include the complexity of operation, self-filling of the tanks, and pump priming issues. The new valveless impeller systems seems to address these issue fairly well. My system is only a conversion of the fill pumps to impeller pumps, the drain aerotors work well so they remain. I have used impeller pumps before, they are not without flaw but they are definately an improvement over the factory aerator fill pumps.

Here is my instructional for the ballast valve elimination, based on my 211, other boats should be similar.

1. Remove the stock cable valves and stock fill pumps
2. Install 3/4" pipe to 1" barbed fittings on the brass shut-off valves
3. Install the three impeller pumps (if you have all three tanks) pre fitted with 1" barbed fittings, I mounted mine to the top rail of the factory ski tow support. I used rubber pads to help minimize noise but they are still a little louder than I like, Jabsco's would probably be quieter.
4. Run the 1" lines between the barbed fittings/pumps/tanks, I used plastic 1" electrical flexible conduit from the local building supply store, it is inexpensive and oil resistant, other hoses are available, make sure you use something that does not crush under suction, warm the hose and use some lube to help get the hose over the fittings
5. Build the relay box complete with enough wire to go between the battery and the pumps (use #8 wire to power the relays, use #12 or bigger wire to power the pumps, use #18 or bigger wire to trigger the relays, fuse the #8 wire with a 40A fuse, fuse the pump wires with 20A fuses or circuit breakers)
6. Install the relay box

Notes of caution:
A. the electrical components should not be inside the motor compartment.
B. the impeller pumps should be ignition protected if they are to be installed inside the motor compartment

Materials:
i) 3 impeller pumps - Jabsco Ballast Puppy, Simer (these are not ignition protected) or equiv.
ii) 3 Bosch type cube relays
iii) 3 20A fusible links
iv) 1 40A fusible link
v) relay box
vi) 35' of 1" non-collapsible hose
vii) 6 barbed hose fittings


Options:
My ballast valves were always difficult to read so I relocated them where the valve controls used to be. This left a nice location to install my audio interface panel jacks, a blank plate of ABS or Plexiglass could have been used to blank off the new holes left from the gauge removal. If you find your tanks to fill on thier own you may need to install the no-self-fill washer in the front pickup and drill pressure reliefs in the back of the rear scoops. You may want to use the stiffer black impellers in the Jabsco pumps, you are unlikely to run these pumps dry since they are only to be used for filling and they are not going to be getting reversed.

[Mikeski]

RE: How-To write-up

Links to parts:
Pumps:
Jabsco pumps search e-bay for ballast puppy, they cost $240 each or you can use Simer BW8512's from BE Atlas for about $85 each.

Relays:
search e-bay for bosch spst relays, I recommend you get them with pre-wired sockets

Fuses and wire:
search e-bay for 40 amp fuse, there are plenty of options, I used an ATC fuse,
for wire search for Genuine Dealz, they have marine grade wire and small fuse holders in all sizes
I try to avoid fuses when possible, my pumps are protected by 20A auto reset circuit breakers, sourced from e-bay

[WakeSlayer]

RE: How-To write-up

Awesome, thanks Mike, will let you know how it goes when we get to it.

[WakeSlayer]

RE: How-To write-up

Forgive me if I am missing something. After reading through your instructions, one thing I did not understand. You say you are only using these to fill? I am not very familiar with the current system, nor the boat, but how come you wouldn't just utilize both directions of the pump and use the Jabsco's for draining it, too? Is it just too complex or is it do-able?
My system uses fill and drain through the same ports. My friend would kind of like to do the same.

[Mikeski]

RE: How-To write-up

The factory aerator drain pumps work great, no reason to change something that works.

Also:
- Aerators are not harmed when they get run dry
- Aerators are quieter than the Impeller pumps
- Aerators use less power than Impeller pumps
- Aerators are faster than the Impeller pumps
- Fill fittings are on the top of the tanks, so you don't need to remove the tanks if you leave the stock drain pumps
- Plumbing is simple if you leave the drain pumps in place
- Impeller pumps seal better (eliminating auto-filling) if you don't reverse them
- Impellers (the rubber blades) last longer if you don't reverse them

If the drain pumps did not work well or if I was building a system from scratch I probably would use the impeller pumps to drain as well as fill, this is how I did the sacks in my old boat, which also worked great.

[WakeSlayer]

RE: How-To write-up

right on, thanks. I tore my whole system out and went all new. This sounds like a great setup, will let you know how it works in Pat's 211


thanks again

[Mikeski]

Pictures, finally...

Finally had a chance to get in the boat with a camera.

DISCLAIMER - THE BALLAST PUMPS SHOWN IN THE PICTURES ARE NOT SAFE FOR USE IN THE MOTOR COMPARTMENT. THEY CAN IGNITE FUMES AND CAUSE THE BOAT TO EXPLODE (if you are dumb enough to start the pumps without running the blower and checking for gas fumes)