ZR409 VS Excalibur 5.7

[Nautiquehunter]

I am in the process of putting together an order for a
09 210. I have the order complete except one nagging
option. 6.0L or 5.7L is the 6.0L worth the extra money?
Any one out there with it , can you tell me why you ordered it?
What are the benefits over the 5.7?

[SuperSquirt]

RE: ZR409 VS Excalibur 5.7

Keep in mind that what your driving isn't a racecar or speedboat, they are towboats. PCM engines are the best in the industry and all of their blocks are great. It really depends on how much you are going to be towing, my 5.7 does fine with 2000 #'s of extra weight, but if you are a super hardcore rider using 3000-4000, it might be beneficial to have the extra ponies. I personally don't think the higher price is worth the amount of HP increase. Although, I do think its nice that the 6.0 has a closed cooling system like a car.

[j2nh]

I had the excalibur in my 02 196.
ZR6 in my 05 196.
Ordered the ZR409 in my soon to be delivered 09 196.
Obviously the 210 and 196 are different boats and are used for different things so I don't think a direct comparison of my experiences is possible however there are a couple of things to note.
Both the ZR and EX are great engines. 400 hours on my 02 EX and another 400 in our club 196 with the EX and the only problem we have had is a fuel pump in our club boat which was our fault cause we ran it out of gas. My 05 ZR6 ran flawlessly for 425 hours before I sold it.
Gas milage no discernible difference at slalom speeds. ZR is about 20 lbs lighter. 196 with ZR is faster and much better for barefooting. Noticeable difference if you are pulling multiple skiers. SuperSquirt is right about the closed cooling, just an opinion but I think it is better for the longevity of the engine. Side advantage to closed cooling is that the heater works better at slower speeds.

[kevfran99]

I'm not trying to steal your thread, but can you add the closed cooling to the Excalibur??? This might help make up your mind if you like the closed cooling!

[TRBenj]

I had the excalibur in my 02 196.
ZR6 in my 05 196.
Ordered the ZR409 in my soon to be delivered 09 196.
Obviously the 210 and 196 are different boats and are used for different things so I don't think a direct comparison of my experiences is possible however there are a couple of things to note.
Both the ZR and EX are great engines.

196 with ZR is faster and much better for barefooting. Noticeable difference if you are pulling multiple skiers.

Ive driven both 409 and Excal powered 196's as well, and I agree with the above comments. I cant say there is an appreciable difference in holeshot between the 2 engines- the 409 didnt come into its own until somewhere in the 3000-3500 range. Once you get the revs up, it pulls strong though, and the thing has all sorts of top end (5600+ RPM).

In a 210 where you dont plan to do much high speed skiing/barefooting, Id be inclined to say that the 409 isnt worth the expense.

[AirTool]

I'm not trying to steal your thread, but can you add the closed cooling to the Excalibur??? This might help make up your mind if you like the closed cooling!

99% sure "yes" ...intended for salty service.

[sacramentia]

You may have already put in your order, but here is my opinion.

I purchased an 07 220 earlier this year with the 6.0 engine instead of the 5.7. On the Demo the 5.7 was fine for everything we do, but I live in Northern California and wanted the extra power for the couple times per year I go to Tahoe. The only time I have ever used all the power and thought I could need more was at Tahoe, Full Ballast, Ice Chest's and 10 people in the boat - it took everything just to get on top towing a wakeboarder. This is at 6200ft which means I lost ~20% of my power compared to sea level.

I run a 13.25x16 prop, which is not a power prop. At Shasta (1400ft) I've never needed all the power, even with 2000lbs ballast and 7 people in the boat. You can always prop down to an Acme 1235 14 x 14.25 if you run really heavy all the time. Your top speed goes from slow to a little slower if you do this, but if you run that heavy you're not into top speed anyways.

The fuel efficiency is excellent, at 3000rpm I ran 115miles on 27 gallons of fuel with 2 people in the boat, sea level delta cruise. Average speed of almost 27mph. We were running a GPS that day and I think may have timed the tides to our advantage, but the consumption of this boat has been consistently less than my GT40.

In summary, if I never took the boat to Altitude I'd get the 5.7L. At altitude the 6.0 gives 5.7 equivalent power. 340hp is plenty for this boat.

[gride300]

i have not ridden or driven with the new engines, but i know an 06 210 with more weight than you can imagine with the big engine and correct prop is a pure beast and i noticed not difference in gas consumption from my 05 ex330 with the same weight and prop. i'd say get the big boy. its a new boat and you should be able to get a great deal. however, if you plan to get rid of it soon you probably won't be able to add that extra price tag into resale since most people dont want the 6.0 and yes you can add closed loop but you may as well go ahead and get the 6.0 b/c it already has the 1800$ add on doesnt it?

[j2nh]

Good point gride300.
All 6.0's come with closed cooling which would make the larger motor a little more reasonable if you required the closed cooling option on an excalibur.

[gride300]

i had to install it last april when i got my 210. it's an 05 with the ex. it was down in orlando at secc. and i was moving back to bama. total price including tax and labor was 1800.00. the price of the 6.0 is about 1800-2000. so really if you ALWAYS run in fresh water the 5.7 will be best for price, resale.

[Nautiquehunter]

Thanks for all your posts I'm getting closer to my completed order
and it comes down to this.
1- titon tower and full throttle package or
2-FCT1 tower and 6.0L engine
The cost of the boat with ether options is about the same.
I am leaning toward #2 I just keep thinking what would I change
on my current boat if I could .
The answer is bigger engine even though I don't need
the extra HP most of the time I know I can always
throttle down but once at full throttle that's it.
I have until Jan 17th [Chicago Boat Show] to decide.

[saceone]

I own a 02 210 with the Excalibur and I'd like a few extra ponies....but then again, I'd probably want more even if I had twin 502's.


bigger is better in my books

[gride300]

are you ever going to use it in brackish or salt? i cant remember what acme i have but with just a couple folks in the boat at about 3500rpm i'm at about 30mph. i have a ex330 and even with 3800lbs in it it planes and holds speed great. i'd go with the fct1 and full throttle

[Nautiquehunter]

I live in northern Indiana The boat will never see salt water
as long as I own it.

[robertsmcfarland]

If you use the boat year round or run into cold weather before you put the boat up for the season go for the 6.0 closed loop you don't have to winterize . I have had three super airs with the 6.0 ,two 210 and one 220, just ride and go no matter what the temp.